6 ms·

How to be creepy: 1.) Be unattractive. 2.) Perform the same behaviors that attractive people do. 3.) Goto 1

by douche 10y ago

randomname2 10y ago
It's not necessarily the lack of physical attractiveness that's a problem -- more so the lack of social awareness in exhibiting such "high status" behaviors as a "low-status" person, as mentioned in the paper ("People who follow social rules of behavior are not perceived as creepy"). It's more socially acceptable for unattractive yet wealthy/high-status people to perform such behaviors, as this can be explained by considering them "eccentric" or "confident" rather than "weird" or "creepy".
- noxToken 10y ago
  Is that not the same as what GP said? Your modifier is wealth or status. Without those, you move from eccentric to creepy on the sliding scale.
  - randomname2 10y ago
    Perhaps. If for the sake of the argument there is such a sliding scale, maybe attractiveness should also be a factor. Attractiveness is more than just "physical attractiveness", and by definition pretty much excludes creepiness. Not to imply that people who are considered attractive can't be creepy -- but they do get more leeway.
- existencebox 10y ago
  I could be misunderstanding the data due to my pre-work skimming of the article, but looking at a variety of the variables they expose, it seems like many of the highly weighted creepiness factors _do_ align with appearance in absence of action. Greasy hair? Overly thin/pale? I can understand that some people may consider your parent's comment as looking for excuses/being overly snide/something or other, but it's certainly worth consideration, especially for me in that my anecdotal bayesian prior certainly echoes the sentiment of "appearance buys you breathing room". (As I got older and started caring about my appearance more, I observed my equally nerdy (behaviorally) friends get treated diametrically differently than I was when I KNEW we acted nearly identically after decades together)
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Perhaps related to the "Uncanny Valley". Something categorised as one thing, but with traits of another, in this case "high-status"/"low-status" vs "human"/"non-human". Problem is, while Human-like is a bit more universal, status is very subjective and cultural. Maybe it's better to focus on the feeling of creepiness, as a possible reflection of your/ones own cognitive dissonance, than the objective "creepiness" of an object.
mysterypie 10y ago
I think there's an element of this that the study doesn't consider. I once asked a girlfriend of mine what would be her reaction to a man she was dancing with in a club who seemed to be getting an erection. She said, if she were attracted to him, she'd be aroused and excited; if she were not attracted to him, she'd be creeped out.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2005-02-15 http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2005-02-15
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cousin_it 10y ago
Yeah, that's a popular view. I don't think it's the whole story though. Have you seen the film "Nightcrawler"? It has an incredible scene where the protagonist manages to come off as creepy toward another man who's bigger and more confident than him, while asking him for a job. That scene made me realize that creepiness isn't always about attractiveness.
vertex-four 10y ago
I'd argue that the issue isn't in the broad "behaviours" you're talking about - it's in your body language. Attractive people, overall, are unlikely to worry about whether any single interaction is going to go well - and when they are focused on it going well, they can and do come across as creepy. People who are less attractive are possibly more likely to attempt to emulate those broad behaviours, but with much more invested in whether any interaction goes well. This comes out really obviously in body language and people don't like that - I owe you nothing, and you're acting like I do. Attractive, in both sentences above, does not solely mean "physically attractive". Additionally, I don't participate in the hookup scene, and it's possibly very likely that physical attractiveness is much more necessary there than in dating.
scarmig 10y ago
There are behaviors that are definitely creepy and should be avoided. People are willing to overlook them if they find the person attractive. That doesn't change the fact that it's best to avoid those behaviors, and that you can simultaneously be unattractive, non-creepy, and successful in social situations. It's unfair in the way that unattractiveness is always unfair--no matter what you do, you're judged by a much harsher standard than anyone else, and people desperately want to diminish that reality so they can continue to believe in just world fallacies and retain a sense of control about what happens to them. But in the end there's only two ways to respond: understandably bitter anger at the unfairness of the world, or getting over it. Neither will fix the world, but one will make you happy.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > There are behaviors that are definitely creepy and should be avoided. People are willing to overlook them if they find the person attractive. That doesn't change the fact that it's best to avoid those behaviors That isn't what people are talking about. Girls welcome being hit on by guys they find attractive. They hate it from guys they don't find attractive. It's not that the attractive person is doing something they'd be better off not doing but their attractiveness overcomes it, it's that the same behavior is good when an attractive person does it and bad when an unattractive person does it. Just look at your sibling comment -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11706332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11706332
  - scarmig 10y ago
    Protocol there would be to make sure you have consent before dancing sexually aggressively with someone. That attractive folks get mostly a free pass to circumvent that doesn't change the protocol.
- jddjdbdbd3 10y ago
  How does one get over it? I just can't do it. I still have a vengeful hatred of the world and I'm pushing 40. I'm fairly certain that it's this that creeps people out in my case as I'm a solid 8 out of 10 in attractiveness.
peterwwillis 10y ago
How to suck at basketball: 1) Be short. 2) Perform the same behaviors as tall people. 3) Goto 1 ....Do you see how this logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny?
- douche 10y ago
  That's really not a great counterpoint. If you're 5'2" and you try to play basketball the same way Dwight Howard or Shaq does, you're going to have a bad time.
  - peterwwillis 10y ago
    "The same way" like having good technique and being athletic? They may suck at blocking and passing, but they may rock at shooting, stealing and dribbling technique. The argument simplifies too much and draws conclusions that make no sense given other factors. Apples vs oranges. Ugly people are just ugly. They aren't inherently creepy. Lots of ugly people are very pleasant and nice to be around, you just wouldn't want to fuck them. And lots of attractive people are creepy as hell.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues
- morgante 10y ago
  The difference, of course, is that being good at basketball is not necessary to live a happy and fulfilling life. In contrast, being perceived as creepy and unattractive is a great way to be socially isolated and depressed your whole life.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
That's the kind of thing that creeps say.
varjag 10y ago
Scenario I: While inspecting products, an engineering contractor out of blue tells a female customer rep that his parents installed a new bubble bath in their summer house. He is free to use it with his friends anytime. It's the first time he meets this rep. Scenario II: A male student with a stone face tells a female TA he wished she wasn't married. Then does his best to get assigned for her supervision to any lab work or assignment. (I'm male and was witness to both) Q1: do you find those behaviours creepy? Q2: if so, would you think attractiveness makes any of that feel normal?
- garrettgrimsley 10y ago
  A1: Yes, both of those behaviors are creepy. A2: No, attractiveness would not make either interaction feel normal. In the first scenario a complete stranger in a business interaction is hitting on someone. Not just light flirting but implicitly inviting the person over to their house. Creepy even if the creep is attractive. In the second scenario the student is exhibiting deviant behavior by making a sexual advance on a married person. After that he tries to maximize forced contact with the TA, again, creepy no matter what you look like. Since you mentioned witnessing creepiness: When you watched these scenarios play out, did you get creeped out yourself? I ask because I'm a man and the most I've ever felt creeped out would be when I was witness to an interaction a classmate of mine, a woman, had. Vicarious discomfort, if you will.
  - varjag 10y ago
    I didn't feel anxiety or fear that normally implied with "creeped out", more like severe discomfort, yes. Even embarrassment perhaps. The difference I think is I wasn't on the receiving side of it. If some stranger invited me to a bubble bath I'd probably be creeped out too.

How to be creepy: 1.) Be unattractive. 2.) Perform the same behaviors that attractive people do. 3.) Goto 1

by douche 10y ago

How to be creepy: 1.) Be unattractive. 2.) Perform the same behaviors that attractive people do. 3.) Goto 1

It's not necessarily the lack of physical attractiveness that's a problem -- more so the lack of social awareness in exhibiting such "high status" behaviors as a "low-status" person, as mentioned in the paper ("People who follow social rules of behavior are not perceived as creepy"). It's more socially acceptable for unattractive yet wealthy/high-status people to perform such behaviors, as this can be explained by considering them "eccentric" or "confident" rather than "weird" or "creepy".

noxToken 10y ago
Is that not the same as what GP said? Your modifier is wealth or status. Without those, you move from eccentric to creepy on the sliding scale.
- randomname2 10y ago
  Perhaps. If for the sake of the argument there is such a sliding scale, maybe attractiveness should also be a factor. Attractiveness is more than just "physical attractiveness", and by definition pretty much excludes creepiness. Not to imply that people who are considered attractive can't be creepy -- but they do get more leeway.
existencebox 10y ago
I could be misunderstanding the data due to my pre-work skimming of the article, but looking at a variety of the variables they expose, it seems like many of the highly weighted creepiness factors _do_ align with appearance in absence of action. Greasy hair? Overly thin/pale? I can understand that some people may consider your parent's comment as looking for excuses/being overly snide/something or other, but it's certainly worth consideration, especially for me in that my anecdotal bayesian prior certainly echoes the sentiment of "appearance buys you breathing room". (As I got older and started caring about my appearance more, I observed my equally nerdy (behaviorally) friends get treated diametrically differently than I was when I KNEW we acted nearly identically after decades together)
Chris2048 10y ago
Perhaps related to the "Uncanny Valley". Something categorised as one thing, but with traits of another, in this case "high-status"/"low-status" vs "human"/"non-human". Problem is, while Human-like is a bit more universal, status is very subjective and cultural. Maybe it's better to focus on the feeling of creepiness, as a possible reflection of your/ones own cognitive dissonance, than the objective "creepiness" of an object.

mysterypie 10y ago

I think there's an element of this that the study doesn't consider. I once asked a girlfriend of mine what would be her reaction to a man she was dancing with in a club who seemed to be getting an erection. She said, if she were attracted to him, she'd be aroused and excited; if she were not attracted to him, she'd be creeped out.

thaumasiotes 10y ago
http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2005-02-15 http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2005-02-15

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cousin_it 10y ago

Yeah, that's a popular view. I don't think it's the whole story though. Have you seen the film "Nightcrawler"? It has an incredible scene where the protagonist manages to come off as creepy toward another man who's bigger and more confident than him, while asking him for a job. That scene made me realize that creepiness isn't always about attractiveness.

vertex-four 10y ago

I'd argue that the issue isn't in the broad "behaviours" you're talking about - it's in your body language. Attractive people, overall, are unlikely to worry about whether any single interaction is going to go well - and when they are focused on it going well, they can and do come across as creepy. People who are less attractive are possibly more likely to attempt to emulate those broad behaviours, but with much more invested in whether any interaction goes well. This comes out really obviously in body language and people don't like that - I owe you nothing, and you're acting like I do. Attractive, in both sentences above, does not solely mean "physically attractive". Additionally, I don't participate in the hookup scene, and it's possibly very likely that physical attractiveness is much more necessary there than in dating.

scarmig 10y ago

There are behaviors that are definitely creepy and should be avoided. People are willing to overlook them if they find the person attractive. That doesn't change the fact that it's best to avoid those behaviors, and that you can simultaneously be unattractive, non-creepy, and successful in social situations. It's unfair in the way that unattractiveness is always unfair--no matter what you do, you're judged by a much harsher standard than anyone else, and people desperately want to diminish that reality so they can continue to believe in just world fallacies and retain a sense of control about what happens to them. But in the end there's only two ways to respond: understandably bitter anger at the unfairness of the world, or getting over it. Neither will fix the world, but one will make you happy.

thaumasiotes 10y ago
> There are behaviors that are definitely creepy and should be avoided. People are willing to overlook them if they find the person attractive. That doesn't change the fact that it's best to avoid those behaviors That isn't what people are talking about. Girls welcome being hit on by guys they find attractive. They hate it from guys they don't find attractive. It's not that the attractive person is doing something they'd be better off not doing but their attractiveness overcomes it, it's that the same behavior is good when an attractive person does it and bad when an unattractive person does it. Just look at your sibling comment -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11706332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11706332
- scarmig 10y ago
  Protocol there would be to make sure you have consent before dancing sexually aggressively with someone. That attractive folks get mostly a free pass to circumvent that doesn't change the protocol.
jddjdbdbd3 10y ago
How does one get over it? I just can't do it. I still have a vengeful hatred of the world and I'm pushing 40. I'm fairly certain that it's this that creeps people out in my case as I'm a solid 8 out of 10 in attractiveness.

peterwwillis 10y ago

How to suck at basketball: 1) Be short. 2) Perform the same behaviors as tall people. 3) Goto 1 ....Do you see how this logic doesn't hold up to scrutiny?

douche 10y ago
That's really not a great counterpoint. If you're 5'2" and you try to play basketball the same way Dwight Howard or Shaq does, you're going to have a bad time.
- peterwwillis 10y ago
  "The same way" like having good technique and being athletic? They may suck at blocking and passing, but they may rock at shooting, stealing and dribbling technique. The argument simplifies too much and draws conclusions that make no sense given other factors. Apples vs oranges. Ugly people are just ugly. They aren't inherently creepy. Lots of ugly people are very pleasant and nice to be around, you just wouldn't want to fuck them. And lots of attractive people are creepy as hell.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues
morgante 10y ago
The difference, of course, is that being good at basketball is not necessary to live a happy and fulfilling life. In contrast, being perceived as creepy and unattractive is a great way to be socially isolated and depressed your whole life.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

That's the kind of thing that creeps say.

varjag 10y ago

Scenario I: While inspecting products, an engineering contractor out of blue tells a female customer rep that his parents installed a new bubble bath in their summer house. He is free to use it with his friends anytime. It's the first time he meets this rep. Scenario II: A male student with a stone face tells a female TA he wished she wasn't married. Then does his best to get assigned for her supervision to any lab work or assignment. (I'm male and was witness to both) Q1: do you find those behaviours creepy? Q2: if so, would you think attractiveness makes any of that feel normal?

garrettgrimsley 10y ago
A1: Yes, both of those behaviors are creepy. A2: No, attractiveness would not make either interaction feel normal. In the first scenario a complete stranger in a business interaction is hitting on someone. Not just light flirting but implicitly inviting the person over to their house. Creepy even if the creep is attractive. In the second scenario the student is exhibiting deviant behavior by making a sexual advance on a married person. After that he tries to maximize forced contact with the TA, again, creepy no matter what you look like. Since you mentioned witnessing creepiness: When you watched these scenarios play out, did you get creeped out yourself? I ask because I'm a man and the most I've ever felt creeped out would be when I was witness to an interaction a classmate of mine, a woman, had. Vicarious discomfort, if you will.
- varjag 10y ago
  I didn't feel anxiety or fear that normally implied with "creeped out", more like severe discomfort, yes. Even embarrassment perhaps. The difference I think is I wasn't on the receiving side of it. If some stranger invited me to a bubble bath I'd probably be creeped out too.