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Hopefully everyone here can recognize that Ta-Nehisi Coates' post simply presents a hypothesis and contains absolutely no supporting data.

carbocation 17y ago
He is relying on the same data for his assertions as everyone else has been. I see his analysis of that data as no less valid than that of OKCupid, etc.
- danieldon 17y ago
  Maybe you read a different post, but the one linked here simply argues that "any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid," then lists a bunch of sites targeting black users and concludes that the OKCupid data is not representative of the public at large, despite the complete absence of supporting data. I don't see an analysis of data, just a hypothesis.
  - ekiru 17y ago
    Actually, it said "when black people who don't want to date non-black people date online, they go to one of the black-only dating sites rather than dating sites aimed at the general population." It did still simply provide a hypothesis, but it is at least a plausible hypothesis that might explain the data. One would need further data to determine its validity, of course.
    - danieldon 17y ago
      it is at least a plausible hypothesis It might seem plausible if you share the same preconceptions as Ta-Nehisi Coates. But where's the data? Plenty of things that sound plausible to some people turn out to be unsupported by data, particularly when they are issues that people are emotionally invested in and issues that, like this one, have heavy social and political components. Racial views in the US are absolutely filled with (and arguably dominated by) gross misconceptions that seem plausible to many people despite being untrue.
  - darshan 17y ago
    Coates is pointing out that there are good reasons to suspect strong sample bias. OkCupid didn't address this -- they just assumed an unbiased sample. I find Coates' argument far more compelling than OkCupid's blind assumption. Blacks do look seriously underrepresented based on the response rates to the two questions. (Suggesting that blacks account for around 4% of OkCupid's users.) That's hardly proof of anything, but it does offer some credence to Coates' argument. In the real world, it's often very hard to find compelling data, so we sometimes have to rely on compelling argument.
    - danieldon 17y ago
      Coates is pointing out that there are good reasons to suspect strong sample bias. If that was all he did then there wouldn't be a problem, but it wasn't. He also made unsubstantiated, anecdotal claims, and he presented the whole thing as fact. OkCupid didn't address this -- they just assumed an unbiased sample. The OKCupid post very explicitly addressed how their user demographics differ from the norm.
  - barmstrong 17y ago
    You hit the nail on the head - he made an argument from emotion. The OkCupid post was an evidence based approach.
  - marltod 17y ago
    You are correct, he didn't do a poll to find out what percentage of black people would only go to OKCupid after failing at those others he mentions. So basically this discussion is pointless until this poll is done.
thrdOriginal 17y ago
I thought his article did a good job of logically asserting his point. What kind of data do you absolutely need that he didn't provide in order to believe that OKCupid is but a small part of a bigger picture when it comes to black women and (online) dating?
- danieldon 17y ago
  What kind of data do you absolutely need...? The kind of data that demonstrates that the OKCupid data doesn't reflect broader dating patterns.
  - astine 17y ago
    I think that anyone who wants to use OkCupid's data as an example of the dating market as a whole, needs to show that OKCupid is representative of the dating market as a whole, not the other way around.
    - danieldon 17y ago
      I think that anyone who speculates and makes unsubstantiated claims about the dating market as a whole needs to show that their speculation and claims are representative of the dating market as a whole, or really representative of anything at all. My statement was broader than intended. Obviously OKCupid's data is not necessarily reflective of all dating sites or interracial dating patterns overall, but Ta-Nehisi Coates is only presenting a hypothesis and some speculative claims, not data, and his speculation shouldn't be treated as anything more until someone presents data that supports it.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    The burden of proof generally relies on people making the unusual claim.
    - danieldon 17y ago
      How is it at all unusual? The OKCupid data reflects census data on interracial marriage pairings, which shows low numbers of marriages between black women and men of other races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States#cite_ref-census5_10-0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_Uni...). If the OKCupid data showed that black women were both responsible for and recipients of the highest reply rates, that would be unusual.

carbocation 17y ago

He is relying on the same data for his assertions as everyone else has been. I see his analysis of that data as no less valid than that of OKCupid, etc.

danieldon 17y ago
Maybe you read a different post, but the one linked here simply argues that "any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid," then lists a bunch of sites targeting black users and concludes that the OKCupid data is not representative of the public at large, despite the complete absence of supporting data. I don't see an analysis of data, just a hypothesis.
- ekiru 17y ago
  Actually, it said "when black people who don't want to date non-black people date online, they go to one of the black-only dating sites rather than dating sites aimed at the general population." It did still simply provide a hypothesis, but it is at least a plausible hypothesis that might explain the data. One would need further data to determine its validity, of course.
  - danieldon 17y ago
    it is at least a plausible hypothesis It might seem plausible if you share the same preconceptions as Ta-Nehisi Coates. But where's the data? Plenty of things that sound plausible to some people turn out to be unsupported by data, particularly when they are issues that people are emotionally invested in and issues that, like this one, have heavy social and political components. Racial views in the US are absolutely filled with (and arguably dominated by) gross misconceptions that seem plausible to many people despite being untrue.
- darshan 17y ago
  Coates is pointing out that there are good reasons to suspect strong sample bias. OkCupid didn't address this -- they just assumed an unbiased sample. I find Coates' argument far more compelling than OkCupid's blind assumption. Blacks do look seriously underrepresented based on the response rates to the two questions. (Suggesting that blacks account for around 4% of OkCupid's users.) That's hardly proof of anything, but it does offer some credence to Coates' argument. In the real world, it's often very hard to find compelling data, so we sometimes have to rely on compelling argument.
  - danieldon 17y ago
    Coates is pointing out that there are good reasons to suspect strong sample bias. If that was all he did then there wouldn't be a problem, but it wasn't. He also made unsubstantiated, anecdotal claims, and he presented the whole thing as fact. OkCupid didn't address this -- they just assumed an unbiased sample. The OKCupid post very explicitly addressed how their user demographics differ from the norm.
- barmstrong 17y ago
  You hit the nail on the head - he made an argument from emotion. The OkCupid post was an evidence based approach.
- marltod 17y ago
  You are correct, he didn't do a poll to find out what percentage of black people would only go to OKCupid after failing at those others he mentions. So basically this discussion is pointless until this poll is done.

thrdOriginal 17y ago

I thought his article did a good job of logically asserting his point. What kind of data do you absolutely need that he didn't provide in order to believe that OKCupid is but a small part of a bigger picture when it comes to black women and (online) dating?

danieldon 17y ago
What kind of data do you absolutely need...? The kind of data that demonstrates that the OKCupid data doesn't reflect broader dating patterns.
- astine 17y ago
  I think that anyone who wants to use OkCupid's data as an example of the dating market as a whole, needs to show that OKCupid is representative of the dating market as a whole, not the other way around.
  - danieldon 17y ago
    I think that anyone who speculates and makes unsubstantiated claims about the dating market as a whole needs to show that their speculation and claims are representative of the dating market as a whole, or really representative of anything at all. My statement was broader than intended. Obviously OKCupid's data is not necessarily reflective of all dating sites or interracial dating patterns overall, but Ta-Nehisi Coates is only presenting a hypothesis and some speculative claims, not data, and his speculation shouldn't be treated as anything more until someone presents data that supports it.
- scott_s 17y ago
  The burden of proof generally relies on people making the unusual claim.
  - danieldon 17y ago
    How is it at all unusual? The OKCupid data reflects census data on interracial marriage pairings, which shows low numbers of marriages between black women and men of other races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States#cite_ref-census5_10-0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_Uni...). If the OKCupid data showed that black women were both responsible for and recipients of the highest reply rates, that would be unusual.