3 ms·

we're considering it. see http://monster6502.com/ http://monster6502.com/. there is a mailing list for those interested in such a kit.

weinzierl 10y ago
This is awesome! I want one. > Is it expensive? >It is definitely not cheap to make one of these. If we had to ballpark what one of these would sell for — assembled and working — it would certainly be larger than $1k and smaller than $5k. I think this is out of range for many hobbyists and even schools and the like. Projects like the ErgoDox show that kits in the range of a few hundred bucks can sell well. >While the circuit board itself is large and a little bit expensive, the cost is actually dominated by the component and assembly costs of an extremely large number of tiny components, each of which is individually quite inexpensive. Add to that the setup and test costs of building complex things like these in small batches, and you'll immediately see how it adds up. So, the the only way to bring the price down below USD 1000 is, besides (possibly community driven) bulk buying, a kit version. > Is there going to be a soldering kit version of this? > No. (But on the other hand, "Anything is a soldering kit if you're brave enough!") This brings me to my question: Is soldering this even realistic? Did you solder the prototype yourself? How long did that take? I soldered the SMD diodes of a few Ergodoxen (76 for a board) and it gets boring quickly. Can't imagine doing 4304 parts.
- VLM 10y ago
  > "Is soldering this even realistic? How long did that take?" Disclaimer, I'm getting old. In the old days we soldered our S100 computers, and something like a 18 slot backplane had 1800 connections, and generally worked. Not unusual for a single card to have maybe 500 or so IC pins, 50 decoupling caps (100) and lets say 100 pins for jumpers and connectors. So it would be equivalent to making an entire S100 computer. I would estimate many tens of hours total. Also I never did it but no small number of people soldered up IBM PC clone motherboards. There were also clones of Apple-II and TRS-80 model 1 in kit form. Surface mount is a lot easier because once you learn how (and after 1000 or so components you'll be pretty good) there is no more flipping the board upside down over and over or snipping off wires. After 0204 RF chokes and microwave capacitors its nice to slum with giant digital logic parts so big you can pick them up with your fingers. Why some of the larger IC packages are so large that the device is no longer affected by solder surface tension (around say 100 pin TQFP size) You rapidly learn tricks like using the same brand of IC socket thru the whole board and keep a wooden board around the size of the PCB so you can stuff and cover and flip and solder all the IC sockets simultaneously. Another trick is to always remove the flux, not because it electrically matters but because you can't do it without 100% inspection of each joint, and you'll probably find one or two to clean up per board. Because you probably don't own a wave solder machine it also saves time to solder bypass caps on the solder side but beware of clearance issues the board might not fit anymore LOL. On my infinite list of things to build is the transistor clock around 2700 soldering joints. Totally doable. That might be a good place to start.
InclinedPlane 10y ago
If you have doubts about it just budget it out and do it as a kickstarter. If it's not popular enough, no worries, if it is then hey, you get paid up front. P.S. I'd love to see a 4004 kit too.
WorldMaker 10y ago
It would be awesome to (re-)build something like an Atari or NES around it just for all the blinkenlights as you run a game.

weinzierl 10y ago

This is awesome! I want one. > Is it expensive? >It is definitely not cheap to make one of these. If we had to ballpark what one of these would sell for — assembled and working — it would certainly be larger than $1k and smaller than $5k. I think this is out of range for many hobbyists and even schools and the like. Projects like the ErgoDox show that kits in the range of a few hundred bucks can sell well. >While the circuit board itself is large and a little bit expensive, the cost is actually dominated by the component and assembly costs of an extremely large number of tiny components, each of which is individually quite inexpensive. Add to that the setup and test costs of building complex things like these in small batches, and you'll immediately see how it adds up. So, the the only way to bring the price down below USD 1000 is, besides (possibly community driven) bulk buying, a kit version. > Is there going to be a soldering kit version of this? > No. (But on the other hand, "Anything is a soldering kit if you're brave enough!") This brings me to my question: Is soldering this even realistic? Did you solder the prototype yourself? How long did that take? I soldered the SMD diodes of a few Ergodoxen (76 for a board) and it gets boring quickly. Can't imagine doing 4304 parts.

VLM 10y ago
> "Is soldering this even realistic? How long did that take?" Disclaimer, I'm getting old. In the old days we soldered our S100 computers, and something like a 18 slot backplane had 1800 connections, and generally worked. Not unusual for a single card to have maybe 500 or so IC pins, 50 decoupling caps (100) and lets say 100 pins for jumpers and connectors. So it would be equivalent to making an entire S100 computer. I would estimate many tens of hours total. Also I never did it but no small number of people soldered up IBM PC clone motherboards. There were also clones of Apple-II and TRS-80 model 1 in kit form. Surface mount is a lot easier because once you learn how (and after 1000 or so components you'll be pretty good) there is no more flipping the board upside down over and over or snipping off wires. After 0204 RF chokes and microwave capacitors its nice to slum with giant digital logic parts so big you can pick them up with your fingers. Why some of the larger IC packages are so large that the device is no longer affected by solder surface tension (around say 100 pin TQFP size) You rapidly learn tricks like using the same brand of IC socket thru the whole board and keep a wooden board around the size of the PCB so you can stuff and cover and flip and solder all the IC sockets simultaneously. Another trick is to always remove the flux, not because it electrically matters but because you can't do it without 100% inspection of each joint, and you'll probably find one or two to clean up per board. Because you probably don't own a wave solder machine it also saves time to solder bypass caps on the solder side but beware of clearance issues the board might not fit anymore LOL. On my infinite list of things to build is the transistor clock around 2700 soldering joints. Totally doable. That might be a good place to start.

InclinedPlane 10y ago

If you have doubts about it just budget it out and do it as a kickstarter. If it's not popular enough, no worries, if it is then hey, you get paid up front. P.S. I'd love to see a 4004 kit too.

WorldMaker 10y ago

It would be awesome to (re-)build something like an Atari or NES around it just for all the blinkenlights as you run a game.