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When talking about something meaningful, I speak to people in a way that humans should be spoken to. It's their fault for getting offended. That is, I speak to

by RevRal 17y ago

When talking about something meaningful, I speak to people in a way that humans should be spoken to. It's their fault for getting offended. That is, I speak to people with the dignity of humans in mind, which is our power of inference. Speaking in a lesser way is disrespectful, like talking to people as if they were dogs. Yet, that is where most people are comfortable. That is the level of sanity which is promoted through most human society. And this level of sanity is, frankly, animalistic and insane. No, even if people don't like it, I won't grant them the indignity of being spoken to like an animal. With that said, I've learned some leniency with this rule. Now, I'm basically sociopathically socially skilled in places where people can't communicate at my level -- pretty much the article's last two paragraphs. I understand wit and charm logically, and I can apply it quite consciously. I am, however, always disquieted that I have to entertain myself like this -- and as a byproduct, entertain others -- and yet, people don't realize that they're being tricked. Bah. As long as I'm not talking to the layperson about something meaningful, I'm fine. I just really wish it didn't have to be this way.

mcantor 17y ago
Where is it written that people should be spoken to a certain way? I feel like you are exhibiting some signs of the very hubris that this article cautions against. Beware the conviction you feel so strongly that there is no possibility you could be wrong, and anyone who takes offense at your stance is simply getting what they deserve. That way lies anger and estrangement. Everyone has different expectations about how they will be communicated with. It depends largely on how they were brought up, and what their brains learned to expect from certain verbal cues. If you really care about whether someone else understands what you are saying, it makes sense to meet in the middle. I doubt it is your intention to offend people when you communicate honestly with them. Perhaps it would be constructive to respond to someone taking umbrage at your words by gently mentioning what you wrote in your second paragraph: "I'm sorry I offended you... it is not my intention to suggest that your opinions are worth less than mine. I know that I might be wrong, but it is far more efficient and honest to simply state my beliefs and opinions without cluttering my sentences with lots of extra fluff." At that point, the ball is in their court: they can choose to do the work and remind themselves that you are not trying to clobber their opinions, or they can decide that it isn't worth the effort. At that point, it is your turn to decide whether it's worth the effort to change your speech patterns, or if you do not care about communicating with them enough to bother.
- RevRal 17y ago
  Thank you for the thoughtful response. I was up all night finishing a project, and I am killing time right now staying awake, so understand if I'm not writing with precision. When I said I speak to people the way humans should be spoken to, I meant that I am speaking to them with respect. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but keep in mind that I am talking specifically about conversations about meaningful things. So in order to avoid speaking dis-respectfully, I avoid these conversations if the other persons can't handle them. When I say meaningful, I mostly mean things that can be dissected into components and analyzed using logic. It is painful to listen to some people talk about quantum mechanics, or even movies or books. They find a conclusion too soon, instead of relishing the antecedent ideas and facts. It takes the human power of inference to examine these preceding, and surrounding, ideas and to connect them in a way that makes sense (this is that human thing that I am respecting in my first paragraph, btw). And, it often takes more than one brain to do this well. Okay, the problem is a little clearer: I am much more interested in the process of finding a precise conclusion than weighing the conclusion itself against another person's. I get the impression that most people perceive it as some kind of battle. Also, keep in mind, I was talking specifically about laypeople, whose attitude is normally this: "don't mess with my opinion. That is sacred territory." And I am speaking about laypeople because they are the majority and tend to decide these social norms. This is why I don't talk to them about meaningful things. It is too much like a minefield, where I'm talking myself in circles trying to avoid upsetting the other person. Think about talking to a fundamentalist christian about evolution, but you have to do it in a way that wont upset them. A layperson's thought process is jacked up just like that fundamentalist's. And it shows in how they want to speak to one another. Again, that is why I choose not to engage in discussion about meaningful things with these people. I keep my head by engaging them with charm, humor, wit, anecdotes.... which is fine exercise and I'm rather good at it. I'm not a non-functioning nerd; I know tact very well. I don't like it like this, but I accept it. I want to be able to talk to anybody about important things. It's a good thing that I've picked good close friends and partners who know how to communicate well, and we never play the "you're not allowed to say that card," or the "you're not allowed to omit that card" hahaha. Funny how we never manipulate, lie, or have terrible arguments with one-another and yet people who uphold bad communication and these silly social pleasantries, their lives are wrought with unnecessary drama. Please, let me know if there was anything else you would like for me to clarify. I haven't done an all-nighter in a long time, so it's hard for me to tell if I'm being clear or if I read your comment clearly.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

by RevRal 17y ago

mcantor 17y ago

Where is it written that people should be spoken to a certain way? I feel like you are exhibiting some signs of the very hubris that this article cautions against. Beware the conviction you feel so strongly that there is no possibility you could be wrong, and anyone who takes offense at your stance is simply getting what they deserve. That way lies anger and estrangement. Everyone has different expectations about how they will be communicated with. It depends largely on how they were brought up, and what their brains learned to expect from certain verbal cues. If you really care about whether someone else understands what you are saying, it makes sense to meet in the middle. I doubt it is your intention to offend people when you communicate honestly with them. Perhaps it would be constructive to respond to someone taking umbrage at your words by gently mentioning what you wrote in your second paragraph: "I'm sorry I offended you... it is not my intention to suggest that your opinions are worth less than mine. I know that I might be wrong, but it is far more efficient and honest to simply state my beliefs and opinions without cluttering my sentences with lots of extra fluff." At that point, the ball is in their court: they can choose to do the work and remind themselves that you are not trying to clobber their opinions, or they can decide that it isn't worth the effort. At that point, it is your turn to decide whether it's worth the effort to change your speech patterns, or if you do not care about communicating with them enough to bother.

RevRal 17y ago
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I was up all night finishing a project, and I am killing time right now staying awake, so understand if I'm not writing with precision. When I said I speak to people the way humans should be spoken to, I meant that I am speaking to them with respect. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but keep in mind that I am talking specifically about conversations about meaningful things. So in order to avoid speaking dis-respectfully, I avoid these conversations if the other persons can't handle them. When I say meaningful, I mostly mean things that can be dissected into components and analyzed using logic. It is painful to listen to some people talk about quantum mechanics, or even movies or books. They find a conclusion too soon, instead of relishing the antecedent ideas and facts. It takes the human power of inference to examine these preceding, and surrounding, ideas and to connect them in a way that makes sense (this is that human thing that I am respecting in my first paragraph, btw). And, it often takes more than one brain to do this well. Okay, the problem is a little clearer: I am much more interested in the process of finding a precise conclusion than weighing the conclusion itself against another person's. I get the impression that most people perceive it as some kind of battle. Also, keep in mind, I was talking specifically about laypeople, whose attitude is normally this: "don't mess with my opinion. That is sacred territory." And I am speaking about laypeople because they are the majority and tend to decide these social norms. This is why I don't talk to them about meaningful things. It is too much like a minefield, where I'm talking myself in circles trying to avoid upsetting the other person. Think about talking to a fundamentalist christian about evolution, but you have to do it in a way that wont upset them. A layperson's thought process is jacked up just like that fundamentalist's. And it shows in how they want to speak to one another. Again, that is why I choose not to engage in discussion about meaningful things with these people. I keep my head by engaging them with charm, humor, wit, anecdotes.... which is fine exercise and I'm rather good at it. I'm not a non-functioning nerd; I know tact very well. I don't like it like this, but I accept it. I want to be able to talk to anybody about important things. It's a good thing that I've picked good close friends and partners who know how to communicate well, and we never play the "you're not allowed to say that card," or the "you're not allowed to omit that card" hahaha. Funny how we never manipulate, lie, or have terrible arguments with one-another and yet people who uphold bad communication and these silly social pleasantries, their lives are wrought with unnecessary drama. Please, let me know if there was anything else you would like for me to clarify. I haven't done an all-nighter in a long time, so it's hard for me to tell if I'm being clear or if I read your comment clearly.

deleted 17y ago

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