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I had a chance of visiting the office of Pivotal Labs in London for an interview (this may or may not be the one you're talking about). The open plan layout the

I had a chance of visiting the office of Pivotal Labs in London for an interview (this may or may not be the one you're talking about). The open plan layout they have is by far the worst I've seen. Here's why: * The office zone starts right behind a reception and only separated from a receptionist by a thin glass wall, slightly wider than receptionist's desk. When I arrived, reception wasn't manned, so after hearing me ringing the doorbell several times, some developer interrupted his pair coding session and walked down with an irritated face to open a door for me. I can only imagine how many breaks in coding do FedEx delivery people ensure. * The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. * The desk density is super high (it may even beat Facebook's, but my perception may be wrong here). (update) Also, during a pair coding session I took part in, two men and me were enthusiastically discussing the code we wrote. 40cm away, at another desk someone was trying to get on with their work and was visibly irritated. So it might be that open plan is not so great for pair coding after all.

sedachv 10y ago
> The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. I remember watching a video about Pivotal's offices and work routine. The distinct impression I got is that Pivotal is a very regimented sweatshop with rigid working hours - everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast, and pair-programming and a "panopticon" style open office layout are there mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code. The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon. It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later.
- parasubvert 10y ago
  "very regimented sweatshop ... The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon" You use the term sweatshop, and then say everyone goes home early. Really? " rigid working hours" Business hours are not for everyone, but they are for a lot of people, and they help foster collaboration. "everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast" Not mandatory (it's an incentive to come in on time), but it is free.. As is lunch. Not dissimilar from most SV companies. "mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code" So, it's a sweatshop because people are encouraged to work, and not browse Facebook behind a closed door? There are lots of opportunities to take a break, from Xbox to ping-pong. "It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later." This is quite a conclusion to draw from a video. You do realize that outside of R&D, most Labs teams are balanced customer/Pivotal pairs? There is no belief in handing over to a maintenance team, let alone doing the development by ourselves. You build it, you run it, is the mantra. The whole business model is to build products while teaching companies a culture (open, Devops, collaborative but high discipline) and process (XP, CD) and tools (PaaS, open source) of how to build software productively.
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    Try sprinting at full speed for an hour. Now try walking normally for an hour. Which makes you the most tired?
    - parasubvert 10y ago
      Sprinting, obviously. I'd posit it is a much more fulfilling experience to put a full 8 hours x 5 days sustainably, than the industry's usual "crap we need to work evenings and weekends, we're late"
      - chris_wot 10y ago
        I'm not saying you are a sweatshop, merely pointing out sweatshops can still have workers who operate during normal working hours.
parasubvert 10y ago
Good feedback (yes London is one of the offices). I haven't seen that one but it sounds more cramped than the ones I've visited in other cities and has a different layout. Most offices have a large separate lobby area (always staffed with a receptionist ;) away from desks , close to the cafeteria/presentation area. Sorry you had a disappointing experience.

sedachv 10y ago

> The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. I remember watching a video about Pivotal's offices and work routine. The distinct impression I got is that Pivotal is a very regimented sweatshop with rigid working hours - everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast, and pair-programming and a "panopticon" style open office layout are there mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code. The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon. It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later.

parasubvert 10y ago
"very regimented sweatshop ... The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon" You use the term sweatshop, and then say everyone goes home early. Really? " rigid working hours" Business hours are not for everyone, but they are for a lot of people, and they help foster collaboration. "everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast" Not mandatory (it's an incentive to come in on time), but it is free.. As is lunch. Not dissimilar from most SV companies. "mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code" So, it's a sweatshop because people are encouraged to work, and not browse Facebook behind a closed door? There are lots of opportunities to take a break, from Xbox to ping-pong. "It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later." This is quite a conclusion to draw from a video. You do realize that outside of R&D, most Labs teams are balanced customer/Pivotal pairs? There is no belief in handing over to a maintenance team, let alone doing the development by ourselves. You build it, you run it, is the mantra. The whole business model is to build products while teaching companies a culture (open, Devops, collaborative but high discipline) and process (XP, CD) and tools (PaaS, open source) of how to build software productively.
- chris_wot 10y ago
  Try sprinting at full speed for an hour. Now try walking normally for an hour. Which makes you the most tired?
  - parasubvert 10y ago
    Sprinting, obviously. I'd posit it is a much more fulfilling experience to put a full 8 hours x 5 days sustainably, than the industry's usual "crap we need to work evenings and weekends, we're late"
    - chris_wot 10y ago
      I'm not saying you are a sweatshop, merely pointing out sweatshops can still have workers who operate during normal working hours.

parasubvert 10y ago

Good feedback (yes London is one of the offices). I haven't seen that one but it sounds more cramped than the ones I've visited in other cities and has a different layout. Most offices have a large separate lobby area (always staffed with a receptionist ;) away from desks , close to the cafeteria/presentation area. Sorry you had a disappointing experience.