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We (Pivotal) have an open office layout everywhere because all coding is done in pairs, the concentration still happens this way, except you're vocalizing your

We (Pivotal) have an open office layout everywhere because all coding is done in pairs, the concentration still happens this way, except you're vocalizing your inside voice with your pair. And they're providing active feedback. Two screens, two keyboards, two mice, but one computer/desktop. It's not for everyone, but in tandem with mandatory-no-meetings beyond a 5 minute daily standup and couple of set hour-long meetings every week, this can lead to very productive working days.

pseudalopex 10y ago
How is an open layout better for pairing than a shared office?
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  It's not.
- huac 10y ago
  theoretically less friction in 'switching pairs': finding a new desk when you start a new task with a different person should be easier than giving up an office
- parasubvert 10y ago
  Pairs switch up every day or two and people switch teams every 12-16 weeks or so. Also there's a strong belief in "open door" policy for impromptu conversations with the product managers or other devs, and in having build/test/CD pipeline status screens visible by the team at all times.
  - douche 10y ago
    So the status quot is one of constant churn and never settling into any kind of groove, ever. Sounds extremely stressful
    - parasubvert 10y ago
      If you're in a small team, you get to know everyone, and cross-pollinate the various skills some individuals may have over others. The groove and "team gel" happens within a couple of weeks. It's not for everyone, and there are some "consulting" individual contributors here and there, but the point is to have a sustainable pace that's always "busy" and everyone is "checked in" rather than have a few weeks of "crunch time" to meet a deadline. Some need to "check out" for a while, that's also fine. Most product cycles last 3-4 months, and it's up to you if you want to switch teams. some don't.
smikhanov 10y ago
I had a chance of visiting the office of Pivotal Labs in London for an interview (this may or may not be the one you're talking about). The open plan layout they have is by far the worst I've seen. Here's why: * The office zone starts right behind a reception and only separated from a receptionist by a thin glass wall, slightly wider than receptionist's desk. When I arrived, reception wasn't manned, so after hearing me ringing the doorbell several times, some developer interrupted his pair coding session and walked down with an irritated face to open a door for me. I can only imagine how many breaks in coding do FedEx delivery people ensure. * The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. * The desk density is super high (it may even beat Facebook's, but my perception may be wrong here). (update) Also, during a pair coding session I took part in, two men and me were enthusiastically discussing the code we wrote. 40cm away, at another desk someone was trying to get on with their work and was visibly irritated. So it might be that open plan is not so great for pair coding after all.
- sedachv 10y ago
  > The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. I remember watching a video about Pivotal's offices and work routine. The distinct impression I got is that Pivotal is a very regimented sweatshop with rigid working hours - everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast, and pair-programming and a "panopticon" style open office layout are there mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code. The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon. It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later.
  - parasubvert 10y ago
    "very regimented sweatshop ... The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon" You use the term sweatshop, and then say everyone goes home early. Really? " rigid working hours" Business hours are not for everyone, but they are for a lot of people, and they help foster collaboration. "everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast" Not mandatory (it's an incentive to come in on time), but it is free.. As is lunch. Not dissimilar from most SV companies. "mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code" So, it's a sweatshop because people are encouraged to work, and not browse Facebook behind a closed door? There are lots of opportunities to take a break, from Xbox to ping-pong. "It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later." This is quite a conclusion to draw from a video. You do realize that outside of R&D, most Labs teams are balanced customer/Pivotal pairs? There is no belief in handing over to a maintenance team, let alone doing the development by ourselves. You build it, you run it, is the mantra. The whole business model is to build products while teaching companies a culture (open, Devops, collaborative but high discipline) and process (XP, CD) and tools (PaaS, open source) of how to build software productively.
Mc_Big_G 10y ago
I worked at Pivotal (as a client), pairing 100% of the time in their open office. I liked the guys I worked with but despised everything else about it. Quitting that job to freelance and work remotely was the most liberating and healthy thing I've ever experienced.

pseudalopex 10y ago

How is an open layout better for pairing than a shared office?

dredmorbius 10y ago
It's not.
huac 10y ago
theoretically less friction in 'switching pairs': finding a new desk when you start a new task with a different person should be easier than giving up an office
parasubvert 10y ago
Pairs switch up every day or two and people switch teams every 12-16 weeks or so. Also there's a strong belief in "open door" policy for impromptu conversations with the product managers or other devs, and in having build/test/CD pipeline status screens visible by the team at all times.
- douche 10y ago
  So the status quot is one of constant churn and never settling into any kind of groove, ever. Sounds extremely stressful
  - parasubvert 10y ago
    If you're in a small team, you get to know everyone, and cross-pollinate the various skills some individuals may have over others. The groove and "team gel" happens within a couple of weeks. It's not for everyone, and there are some "consulting" individual contributors here and there, but the point is to have a sustainable pace that's always "busy" and everyone is "checked in" rather than have a few weeks of "crunch time" to meet a deadline. Some need to "check out" for a while, that's also fine. Most product cycles last 3-4 months, and it's up to you if you want to switch teams. some don't.

smikhanov 10y ago

I had a chance of visiting the office of Pivotal Labs in London for an interview (this may or may not be the one you're talking about). The open plan layout they have is by far the worst I've seen. Here's why: * The office zone starts right behind a reception and only separated from a receptionist by a thin glass wall, slightly wider than receptionist's desk. When I arrived, reception wasn't manned, so after hearing me ringing the doorbell several times, some developer interrupted his pair coding session and walked down with an irritated face to open a door for me. I can only imagine how many breaks in coding do FedEx delivery people ensure. * The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. * The desk density is super high (it may even beat Facebook's, but my perception may be wrong here). (update) Also, during a pair coding session I took part in, two men and me were enthusiastically discussing the code we wrote. 40cm away, at another desk someone was trying to get on with their work and was visibly irritated. So it might be that open plan is not so great for pair coding after all.

sedachv 10y ago
> The open plan office itseld is slightly prolonged and has long "corridor" areas cutting through it. I can only guess why they want to maximize the number of developers whose backs and monitors are turned towards everyone who passes by. I remember watching a video about Pivotal's offices and work routine. The distinct impression I got is that Pivotal is a very regimented sweatshop with rigid working hours - everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast, and pair-programming and a "panopticon" style open office layout are there mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code. The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon. It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later.
- parasubvert 10y ago
  "very regimented sweatshop ... The good part is that the developers there have a set 8 hour workday and leave earlier in the afternoon" You use the term sweatshop, and then say everyone goes home early. Really? " rigid working hours" Business hours are not for everyone, but they are for a lot of people, and they help foster collaboration. "everyone is expected to show up at 8am for breakfast" Not mandatory (it's an incentive to come in on time), but it is free.. As is lunch. Not dissimilar from most SV companies. "mostly to prevent procrastination and force people to at least try to code" So, it's a sweatshop because people are encouraged to work, and not browse Facebook behind a closed door? There are lots of opportunities to take a break, from Xbox to ping-pong. "It obviously works for them because they can just churn out sort-of working apps and let some other suckers deal with maintenance/rewrites later." This is quite a conclusion to draw from a video. You do realize that outside of R&D, most Labs teams are balanced customer/Pivotal pairs? There is no belief in handing over to a maintenance team, let alone doing the development by ourselves. You build it, you run it, is the mantra. The whole business model is to build products while teaching companies a culture (open, Devops, collaborative but high discipline) and process (XP, CD) and tools (PaaS, open source) of how to build software productively.

Mc_Big_G 10y ago

I worked at Pivotal (as a client), pairing 100% of the time in their open office. I liked the guys I worked with but despised everything else about it. Quitting that job to freelance and work remotely was the most liberating and healthy thing I've ever experienced.