3 ms·

From the article: > However, the suits by the students, including 68 from Berkeley and 243 from UC Santa Cruz, have been thrown into uncertainty by a federal j

From the article: > However, the suits by the students, including 68 from Berkeley and 243 from UC Santa Cruz, have been thrown into uncertainty by a federal judge's suggestion that each student in the largest claim should file separately so the court can collect 710 individual $400 filing fees. > "Our clerk's office is really unhappy you are circumventing our filing fees by adding 710 cases under one case number," U.S. District Court Judge Lucy Koh told the students' lawyer, Ray Gallo, according to a court transcript. > Gallo, who is representing the students in both cases, said he expected Google to file a request to separate the 710 claims individually. > "This is a mass case and the question is, 'Can these people who all have essentially the same claim bring it together so that a lawyer like me will agree to do it?" he said. "If these cases have to be filed individually, no lawyer would take it." In one hand the lawyer is right, filling what amounts to the same complaint under 710 different cases is burdensome and adds unnecessary complexity in the process. On the other hand it signals a very bad start by the part of the complainants legal team. Not following judicial (and clerical) procedure to the letter is a very easy way to have the case lost on a technicality. Being a layman in this area my question is: what prevents them from filling a proper class action? Either that or what prevents them from filling the case with a single complainant and, in case of success, using the precedent to get an easier time for the rest 709?

rayiner 10y ago
> Being a layman in this area my question is: what prevents them from filling a proper class action? Litigating a class action involves not just litigating the merits, but litigating the propriety of filing as a class action. E.g. is the class composed of a definite and ascertainable group of people? Are the facts common to all class members? Settling a class action also requires court approval, whereas setting a lawsuit in which all plaintiffs are joined does not. This adds a whole bunch of motions practice. In a case like this the plaintiffs would likely win on class certification, since the same alleged harm happened to an easy-to-define group of people. But it's a bunch of extra work for the lawyer, who is probably proceeding on contingency.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > But it's a bunch of extra work for the lawyer, who is probably proceeding on contingency. Aren't most class actions done on contingency? Also, if they are suing Google, it's hard to believe the extra work of filing a class action would be a significant expense for the plaintiff; there is discovery (and all the skilled labor involved), experts, travel, etc. And it's billable time, which should increase the fees the court approves. Finally, isn't it usually a race by attorneys to get their class certified first, so they are the lead attorney (and get more of the fees)?
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Both things you say are true, but here you've got 700 plaintiffs. How much damages did they have? $500 each? Then you're talking about a fee award of $100k, which isn't a lot to battle class-certification issues with Google. I'm not sure if this happened at any other universities. If so, a class action would make more sense.
- ascagnel_ 10y ago
  Additionally, a EULA can force a potential class-action case into arbitration (with exceptions)[0], so this may be an attempt at going around that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepcion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc...
hackuser 10y ago
I know someone who works in a U.S. federal court and is familiar with these kinds of issues. According to them, the judge's statement is very unusual: Filing fees have no bearing on the case's designation as a mass torte of some kind, and to do otherwise would be unethical (of course). Each district court's budget is determined by a nationwide court office based on workload, not on revenue; this isn't a business. However, each court does keep the fees it collects. Also, if the clerk's office is unhappy, it would address that directly to the attorneys in more or less subtle ways; in fact, the clerk's office could insist on separate cases being filed. A federal court's clerk's office is hardly helpless; you don't want to mess with them if you're an attorney. Finally, they said this seems like a straightforward mass torte. But my contact is puzzled about why the plaintiffs have not already filed this case as a class action (which is one kind of mass torte).
- SilasX 10y ago
  So, wait, if you have to assume each victim is a separate case with $400 of fees just to file, isn't that just begging bad people to commit whatever torts don't exceed $400/person?
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > if you have to assume each victim is a separate case with $400 of fees just to file, isn't that just begging bad people to commit whatever torts don't exceed $400/person? It's much worse than that. It's not worth suing someone for even $10,000 in damages, as the article points out, due to the time and costs involved. Good lawyers bill $400+ per hour. $100,000 is a small case. Class actions are intended as a solution to the very problem you describe. Steal $10 from 1 million people, and it's not worth it for any one of them to file on their own. But a $10 million class action is worth it. If you aren't in a class, then the unfortunate reality is that you don't have much legal recourse. If someone cheats out out of a $1,000, the result is you don't do business with them again and their reputation may suffer. There's small claims court, but how much time, money, and opportunity cost are you going to spend on that, and then you have to collect: WHat if the other party ignores the court's judgment? More time in court, etc. If you're smart, you'll swallow your outrage and move on to something more profitable to spend your time on.

rayiner 10y ago

> Being a layman in this area my question is: what prevents them from filling a proper class action? Litigating a class action involves not just litigating the merits, but litigating the propriety of filing as a class action. E.g. is the class composed of a definite and ascertainable group of people? Are the facts common to all class members? Settling a class action also requires court approval, whereas setting a lawsuit in which all plaintiffs are joined does not. This adds a whole bunch of motions practice. In a case like this the plaintiffs would likely win on class certification, since the same alleged harm happened to an easy-to-define group of people. But it's a bunch of extra work for the lawyer, who is probably proceeding on contingency.

hackuser 10y ago
> But it's a bunch of extra work for the lawyer, who is probably proceeding on contingency. Aren't most class actions done on contingency? Also, if they are suing Google, it's hard to believe the extra work of filing a class action would be a significant expense for the plaintiff; there is discovery (and all the skilled labor involved), experts, travel, etc. And it's billable time, which should increase the fees the court approves. Finally, isn't it usually a race by attorneys to get their class certified first, so they are the lead attorney (and get more of the fees)?
- rayiner 10y ago
  Both things you say are true, but here you've got 700 plaintiffs. How much damages did they have? $500 each? Then you're talking about a fee award of $100k, which isn't a lot to battle class-certification issues with Google. I'm not sure if this happened at any other universities. If so, a class action would make more sense.
ascagnel_ 10y ago
Additionally, a EULA can force a potential class-action case into arbitration (with exceptions)[0], so this may be an attempt at going around that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepcion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc...

hackuser 10y ago

I know someone who works in a U.S. federal court and is familiar with these kinds of issues. According to them, the judge's statement is very unusual: Filing fees have no bearing on the case's designation as a mass torte of some kind, and to do otherwise would be unethical (of course). Each district court's budget is determined by a nationwide court office based on workload, not on revenue; this isn't a business. However, each court does keep the fees it collects. Also, if the clerk's office is unhappy, it would address that directly to the attorneys in more or less subtle ways; in fact, the clerk's office could insist on separate cases being filed. A federal court's clerk's office is hardly helpless; you don't want to mess with them if you're an attorney. Finally, they said this seems like a straightforward mass torte. But my contact is puzzled about why the plaintiffs have not already filed this case as a class action (which is one kind of mass torte).

SilasX 10y ago
So, wait, if you have to assume each victim is a separate case with $400 of fees just to file, isn't that just begging bad people to commit whatever torts don't exceed $400/person?
- hackuser 10y ago
  > if you have to assume each victim is a separate case with $400 of fees just to file, isn't that just begging bad people to commit whatever torts don't exceed $400/person? It's much worse than that. It's not worth suing someone for even $10,000 in damages, as the article points out, due to the time and costs involved. Good lawyers bill $400+ per hour. $100,000 is a small case. Class actions are intended as a solution to the very problem you describe. Steal $10 from 1 million people, and it's not worth it for any one of them to file on their own. But a $10 million class action is worth it. If you aren't in a class, then the unfortunate reality is that you don't have much legal recourse. If someone cheats out out of a $1,000, the result is you don't do business with them again and their reputation may suffer. There's small claims court, but how much time, money, and opportunity cost are you going to spend on that, and then you have to collect: WHat if the other party ignores the court's judgment? More time in court, etc. If you're smart, you'll swallow your outrage and move on to something more profitable to spend your time on.