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Not so much to savor, especially since the entire country is a train wreck in slow motion, with a soupcon of garbage fire. It only exists because China is despe

Not so much to savor, especially since the entire country is a train wreck in slow motion, with a soupcon of garbage fire. It only exists because China is desperate to see them exist, and not experience the flood of refugees into their border region. They already have a couple of million ethnic North Koreans living there, and millions more would rush across to join them the moment the DPRK looks like real collapse. The problem is, that collapse is inevitable, and this reprieve is just giving them time to brutalize their people, and to build and sell nuclear and missile technology.

nxzero 10y ago
America wants Democratic People's Republic of Korea (aka North Korea) around just as much as China does; excuse to have bases, destabilize region, military budget, etc. EDIT: Feel free to comment if you disagree, but this is not my opinion, but that of pretty much anyone I've ever spoken with from Korea (North & South). For that matter, if you believe the US is welcome in Japan, pull up Google Maps, find an US AirForce base in Japan, then read what's write on the roofs of buildings around the bases; here's a hint, doesn't read "Thank you" or "Please stay."
- dave2000 10y ago
  America has bases all around the world; nothing to do with North Korea.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  The US is the guarantor of stability in the region. The problems with the base in Japan are classic NIMBYism, and I don't blame the residents. A bunch of boisterous 20 year old Americans will probably disturb a peaceful Japanese town. Is the US claiming vast swaths of other country's territorial waters and building military bases on artificial islands? No, that's China. The US defends the countries that China is trying to bully that way. South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, America. Seems like a righteous alliance of free people defending themselves against evil from China and North Korea. The evil of a boot stomping on a human face for eternity. Edit: Any arguments from the downvoters?
  - webkike 10y ago
    Calling people shills does not enhance your argument.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      True. Particularly, "paid shills". Anti- or pro-Western, commenters seldom are paid for writing; even if you disagree strongly, remember that they probably write out of a personal conviction.
      - marcoperaza 10y ago
        Russia and China have massive online propaganda operations that include manipulating English-language forums. It's something to be aware of. I'm especially suspect when three people rapid fire downvote but there's no response. I didn't accuse the poster I replied to of being a paid shill. I removed the sentence from my edit because it's just served to distract from the content. And it's just as likely, or more likely, to be a bunch of self-motivated idiots.
        ptaipale 10y ago
        Yes, that is true, and the impact is visible in some discussions. The paid operators maintain web sites, twitter feeds etc that direct the attention of sympathetic activists (perhaps "fellow travellers"), but a vast majority of them surely are not paid. I doubt that HN has large enough following in Russia or its sphere of influence to attract people that would actually be paid to downvote. I do agree that it is sometimes frustrating that people downvote without commenting and offering any other views (which, if void of positive contribution, would expose them themselves to downvotes).
        golergka 10y ago
        HN is exactly the kind of strategic target for these guys. HN is not widely read in Russia, but it's widely read by power users, people who translate and re-print tech news on russian websites, etc. Hell, I'd say that half of decent articles from Habrahabr (one of most influencial russian collective blogs on tech) are translations from HN frontage. So, it's only natural to create a left-leaning, anti-US climate in a website like HN and others.
- webkike 10y ago
  I found Yokoto air force base did not have anything written on any of the roofs. And even then, what would I need to see to believe you? "The US military is in full support of the North Korean dictatorship?"
  - mlvljr 10y ago
    Hoolywood is -- remember the last campaign (+ the Red Dawn reboot with NK as agressor)? :)
- peteretep 10y ago
  I suspect the comment about "destabilize region" is what's getting your downvoted, as there's no evidence for that and it assumes bad faith.
crdoconnor 10y ago
>The problem is, that collapse is inevitable This has been said since day 1 of the truce in 1953. North Korea is many things, but the western propaganda about their being perpetually on the brink of collapse for 63 years is utter bullshit. It's a very stable regime.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  When you're executing family members with AA guns, and have experienced famine so prolonged and severe that it's altered the physiology and intellectual capacity of generations, "Stability" isn't in it.
  - crdoconnor 10y ago
    >When you're executing family members with AA guns Or not: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/14/north_korean_anti_aircraft_gun_execution_maybe_didn_t_happen.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/14/north_kore... Don't worry. You wouldn't be the first person to fall for this type of fabrication.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      Wow, a Slate article that says it "may not be true" while you ignore the other irrefutable part of my statement.

nxzero 10y ago

America wants Democratic People's Republic of Korea (aka North Korea) around just as much as China does; excuse to have bases, destabilize region, military budget, etc. EDIT: Feel free to comment if you disagree, but this is not my opinion, but that of pretty much anyone I've ever spoken with from Korea (North & South). For that matter, if you believe the US is welcome in Japan, pull up Google Maps, find an US AirForce base in Japan, then read what's write on the roofs of buildings around the bases; here's a hint, doesn't read "Thank you" or "Please stay."

dave2000 10y ago
America has bases all around the world; nothing to do with North Korea.
marcoperaza 10y ago
The US is the guarantor of stability in the region. The problems with the base in Japan are classic NIMBYism, and I don't blame the residents. A bunch of boisterous 20 year old Americans will probably disturb a peaceful Japanese town. Is the US claiming vast swaths of other country's territorial waters and building military bases on artificial islands? No, that's China. The US defends the countries that China is trying to bully that way. South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, America. Seems like a righteous alliance of free people defending themselves against evil from China and North Korea. The evil of a boot stomping on a human face for eternity. Edit: Any arguments from the downvoters?
- webkike 10y ago
  Calling people shills does not enhance your argument.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    True. Particularly, "paid shills". Anti- or pro-Western, commenters seldom are paid for writing; even if you disagree strongly, remember that they probably write out of a personal conviction.
    - marcoperaza 10y ago
      Russia and China have massive online propaganda operations that include manipulating English-language forums. It's something to be aware of. I'm especially suspect when three people rapid fire downvote but there's no response. I didn't accuse the poster I replied to of being a paid shill. I removed the sentence from my edit because it's just served to distract from the content. And it's just as likely, or more likely, to be a bunch of self-motivated idiots.
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Yes, that is true, and the impact is visible in some discussions. The paid operators maintain web sites, twitter feeds etc that direct the attention of sympathetic activists (perhaps "fellow travellers"), but a vast majority of them surely are not paid. I doubt that HN has large enough following in Russia or its sphere of influence to attract people that would actually be paid to downvote. I do agree that it is sometimes frustrating that people downvote without commenting and offering any other views (which, if void of positive contribution, would expose them themselves to downvotes).
        golergka 10y ago
        HN is exactly the kind of strategic target for these guys. HN is not widely read in Russia, but it's widely read by power users, people who translate and re-print tech news on russian websites, etc. Hell, I'd say that half of decent articles from Habrahabr (one of most influencial russian collective blogs on tech) are translations from HN frontage. So, it's only natural to create a left-leaning, anti-US climate in a website like HN and others.
webkike 10y ago
I found Yokoto air force base did not have anything written on any of the roofs. And even then, what would I need to see to believe you? "The US military is in full support of the North Korean dictatorship?"
- mlvljr 10y ago
  Hoolywood is -- remember the last campaign (+ the Red Dawn reboot with NK as agressor)? :)
peteretep 10y ago
I suspect the comment about "destabilize region" is what's getting your downvoted, as there's no evidence for that and it assumes bad faith.

crdoconnor 10y ago

>The problem is, that collapse is inevitable This has been said since day 1 of the truce in 1953. North Korea is many things, but the western propaganda about their being perpetually on the brink of collapse for 63 years is utter bullshit. It's a very stable regime.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
When you're executing family members with AA guns, and have experienced famine so prolonged and severe that it's altered the physiology and intellectual capacity of generations, "Stability" isn't in it.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  >When you're executing family members with AA guns Or not: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/14/north_korean_anti_aircraft_gun_execution_maybe_didn_t_happen.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/14/north_kore... Don't worry. You wouldn't be the first person to fall for this type of fabrication.
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    Wow, a Slate article that says it "may not be true" while you ignore the other irrefutable part of my statement.