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Have to point out: we also have legitimately terrible developers using Impostor Syndrome as a political tool to keep their jobs and write whiny blog posts. Eve

by hashkb 10y ago

Have to point out: we also have legitimately terrible developers using Impostor Syndrome as a political tool to keep their jobs and write whiny blog posts. Everyone should have a healthy way of dealing with feeling inadequate, besides whining. (e.g. learning things)

shrugger 10y ago
It's even a meta-issue! So, how do we find out which people are whining and which aren't? How do we encourage people to just learn and self-improve rather than sink to escapism?
jjoonathan 10y ago
If your answer to FOMO / imposter syndrome is "learn more" then you'll quickly find yourself mired in analysis paralysis. It's a strategy that simply doesn't scale to today's world where there is more to learn than can be learned. A better strategy is to develop a sense for the marginal value of learning so that you can decide at some point to stop learning and start working (or, equivalently, choose the right mix of the two). This still leaves the psychological problem unaddressed, so solutions that tackle it head on have their place. The solution for dealing with actual imposters is to fire them. If, somehow, they manage to use "imposter syndrome" as a deflection (I haven't seen this play in the wild and I'm not convinced it's prevalent or even could be made to work), then gather evidence that they aren't pulling their weight and proceed to use it. If that doesn't work, it's not because of some stupid blog post, it's because there's stronger politics at play. Abort/retry/ignore as warranted.
- tetrep 10y ago
  I think that by "learn more" they meant ensure that you're always learning. It's not that you should learn everything, but rather just ensure you're always learning something, always growing. This is something imposters don't do.
  - jjoonathan 10y ago
    > ensure that you're always learning That's a good idea in general, but it doesn't address the specific problem of imposter syndrome. > This is something imposters don't do. If you believe that this is true then it addresses the problem of imposter syndrome. The danger is that you might then have to deal with cognitive dissonance if you were confronted with someone who ramped so slowly or started from so far behind that they couldn't be expected to make a net positive contribution to the team within a reasonable timeframe. It's entirely possible to try and fail, and while we should all admire the "try," that doesn't mean you or your employer should be on the hook for funding it.
- Manishearth 10y ago
  I find "hang around people who are more awesome than you and absorb as much as you can" to be a tangible proxy for "learn more"
  - jjoonathan 10y ago
    That addresses the learning part but not the imposter syndrome part. I suspect it would put you at greater risk for imposter syndrome if anything. It probably even puts you at greater risk for being an actual imposter.
    - Manishearth 10y ago
      No, I mean you do it in reverse: if you find yourself surrounded by awesome people and feel like an impostor, ignore that and focus on learning. You may or may not be an impostor: but does it really matter when you can learn? This is how I've coped with possibly-impostor-syndrome-or-actually-impostor-idk-lol anyway. YMMV.
      - CydeWeys 10y ago
        I'm surrounded by awesome coders at work and have frequently felt like an imposter. The best way I've found to address it is to tackle it head-on: Just get it out in the open and talk about it. It turns out that most of my outwardly-amazing coworkers also feel the same way occasionally. And, of course, don't ever let imposter feelings getting in the way of diving headlong and trying things anyway, even if they seem impossibly difficult from the outset. It's mostly mental barriers; I've tackled dozens of tasks that were imposingly difficult from the outset. There hasn't been a single one yet that I didn't end up making appreciable headway on.
zeemonkee3 10y ago
I have no idea if "terrible developers whining on Medium" is a thing. What I am actually worried about are arrogant developers. They tend to cause the most damage, write the most "clever" code, have the worst communications skills, and will be the first to leave the team in the lurch and panic when shit hits the fan. There may of course be arrogant developers who can walk the talk, but I'm taking from personal experience. The ones with "Imposter Syndrome" - i.e. those who have a fear they're not quite good enough for the job - are more likely, again based on personal experience, to double check everything, to ask questions (from the rest of the team or Google), to write tests and test manually. They write "dumb" code that works and is well-commented and is as simple as possible. They have a desire to learn.

by hashkb 10y ago

shrugger 10y ago

It's even a meta-issue! So, how do we find out which people are whining and which aren't? How do we encourage people to just learn and self-improve rather than sink to escapism?

jjoonathan 10y ago

If your answer to FOMO / imposter syndrome is "learn more" then you'll quickly find yourself mired in analysis paralysis. It's a strategy that simply doesn't scale to today's world where there is more to learn than can be learned. A better strategy is to develop a sense for the marginal value of learning so that you can decide at some point to stop learning and start working (or, equivalently, choose the right mix of the two). This still leaves the psychological problem unaddressed, so solutions that tackle it head on have their place. The solution for dealing with actual imposters is to fire them. If, somehow, they manage to use "imposter syndrome" as a deflection (I haven't seen this play in the wild and I'm not convinced it's prevalent or even could be made to work), then gather evidence that they aren't pulling their weight and proceed to use it. If that doesn't work, it's not because of some stupid blog post, it's because there's stronger politics at play. Abort/retry/ignore as warranted.

tetrep 10y ago
I think that by "learn more" they meant ensure that you're always learning. It's not that you should learn everything, but rather just ensure you're always learning something, always growing. This is something imposters don't do.
- jjoonathan 10y ago
  > ensure that you're always learning That's a good idea in general, but it doesn't address the specific problem of imposter syndrome. > This is something imposters don't do. If you believe that this is true then it addresses the problem of imposter syndrome. The danger is that you might then have to deal with cognitive dissonance if you were confronted with someone who ramped so slowly or started from so far behind that they couldn't be expected to make a net positive contribution to the team within a reasonable timeframe. It's entirely possible to try and fail, and while we should all admire the "try," that doesn't mean you or your employer should be on the hook for funding it.
Manishearth 10y ago
I find "hang around people who are more awesome than you and absorb as much as you can" to be a tangible proxy for "learn more"
- jjoonathan 10y ago
  That addresses the learning part but not the imposter syndrome part. I suspect it would put you at greater risk for imposter syndrome if anything. It probably even puts you at greater risk for being an actual imposter.
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    No, I mean you do it in reverse: if you find yourself surrounded by awesome people and feel like an impostor, ignore that and focus on learning. You may or may not be an impostor: but does it really matter when you can learn? This is how I've coped with possibly-impostor-syndrome-or-actually-impostor-idk-lol anyway. YMMV.
    - CydeWeys 10y ago
      I'm surrounded by awesome coders at work and have frequently felt like an imposter. The best way I've found to address it is to tackle it head-on: Just get it out in the open and talk about it. It turns out that most of my outwardly-amazing coworkers also feel the same way occasionally. And, of course, don't ever let imposter feelings getting in the way of diving headlong and trying things anyway, even if they seem impossibly difficult from the outset. It's mostly mental barriers; I've tackled dozens of tasks that were imposingly difficult from the outset. There hasn't been a single one yet that I didn't end up making appreciable headway on.

zeemonkee3 10y ago

I have no idea if "terrible developers whining on Medium" is a thing. What I am actually worried about are arrogant developers. They tend to cause the most damage, write the most "clever" code, have the worst communications skills, and will be the first to leave the team in the lurch and panic when shit hits the fan. There may of course be arrogant developers who can walk the talk, but I'm taking from personal experience. The ones with "Imposter Syndrome" - i.e. those who have a fear they're not quite good enough for the job - are more likely, again based on personal experience, to double check everything, to ask questions (from the rest of the team or Google), to write tests and test manually. They write "dumb" code that works and is well-commented and is as simple as possible. They have a desire to learn.