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I find this interesting because it's something that I've worked really hard to un-learn. I used to say "I think" before nearly every opinion, but I found it ha

I find this interesting because it's something that I've worked really hard to un-learn. I used to say "I think" before nearly every opinion, but I found it hard to have any of my opinions taken seriously. After all, why should anyone care what I think? These days, I'm much more inclined to say "What if..." or "We should also consider..." to preface an opinion, such that consideration is required before dismissing what I've said.

pavel_lishin 17y ago
My stepfather told me to never preface a counter-argument with "yeah, but". He told me that other people hear it as "I didn't listen to what you said, but am talking anyway."
- TravisLS 17y ago
  Probably the most useful piece of advice I've ever heard regarding this kind of discourse: A mediator friend of mine once told me to always attempt to briefly recap the other person's point before beginning a counter-argument. That way they know you heard what they said, and they have the opportunity to correct any inaccuracies before you get going.
  - mcantor 17y ago
    This simple exercise is more than just a trapping of mutualistic discourse. It actually forces you to think about their point, and leads to a greater understanding of what they are trying to say... which, in turn, allows you to waste less time by explaining a counterpoint to an argument that they didn't make. I try to make myself do this even when I'm not arguing with someone. If a task comes to me from my boss, I will do my best to rephrase it in my own words (not verbatim, unless it's something really simple) to make sure we're on the same page.
    - count 17y ago
      People who do this in every conversation annoy the everliving hell out of me. In a philosophical or rhetorical debate, it's an excellent strategy, but in day to day office conversations, ugh.
- jrockway 17y ago
  He told me that other people hear it as "I didn't listen to what you said, but am talking anyway." Don't worry, even if you don't say "yeah, but", I still think that.
  - pieceofpeace 17y ago
    But why would you assume that?
- cheald 17y ago
  I think the nerd equivalent of this is "Well, actually...". Whenever I hear that, I kind of just mentally sigh and roll my eyes, and I say that as someone who identifies as a nerd with verbal communication issues.
ndl 17y ago
My impression (as it might be wrong) is that the words "I think" are contextually appropriate depending on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to voice an opinion for consideration but not push for it, then "I think" demonstrates your openness. If you are trying to argue for something directly and expect opposition, then you should state your case as directly and strongly as possible. A third option is when you are expected to be a voice of authority (ie. you're a tech and someone just asked you what Linux is). Authorities are supposed to know, and people will think you're BSing if you say "I think..." what you really know. I personally would prefer you admit if you're unsure, but some people would rather you act confident than disclaim.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  > A third option is when you are expected to be a voice of authority (ie. you're a tech and someone just asked you what Linux is). Authorities are supposed to know, and people will think you're BSing if you say "I thin In that scenario "I think" is not to do with opinion but uncertainty (it can be used for both). The definition of Linux is an established fact so if you know what it is there is no need for "I think".
  - rbanffy 17y ago
    > The definition of Linux is an established fact so if you know what it is there is no need for "I think". So, you agree Linux is just a kernel and the whole operating system should be called GNU/Linux, right?
- dkarl 17y ago
  I personally would prefer you admit if you're unsure, but some people would rather you act confident than disclaim. For the third scenario, "it appears" can be useful, or if more justification is required, "it appears from the (server's behavior|available data|documentation I can find)." Then when you have to correct yourself later, it wasn't you who was misleading, but the situation. I find that this can be used in a completely honest way and often gives non-techy people a more accurate impression of the situation. It helps them understand both the tentative nature of your diagnosis and the obstacles you're struggling with. Win-win.
madair 17y ago
That was my reasoning before too. It's a deep rabbit hole of mental reasoning and social signaling, not to mention self-consciousness. I've often felt that it ties into the programmer's constant pressure to achieve syntactic accuracy and efficiency at solving problems. Not to mention that awareness that we're constantly making many small mistakes or misjudgments while coding. (Aside: It's got to be having a profound effect on society, given the pioneering that technologists have done getting us into the age of social tools like the iPhone and Facebook.) I've experimented with "What if" too. I imagine it works for others, but for me, and perhaps something about my tone of voice that I'm not realizing, it sounds patronizing, so it hasn't worked as well.
planettrash 17y ago
To place a disclaimer 'this is not fact' before everything you say, is a bit tedious.
- uriel 17y ago
  And superfluous.

pavel_lishin 17y ago

My stepfather told me to never preface a counter-argument with "yeah, but". He told me that other people hear it as "I didn't listen to what you said, but am talking anyway."

TravisLS 17y ago
Probably the most useful piece of advice I've ever heard regarding this kind of discourse: A mediator friend of mine once told me to always attempt to briefly recap the other person's point before beginning a counter-argument. That way they know you heard what they said, and they have the opportunity to correct any inaccuracies before you get going.
- mcantor 17y ago
  This simple exercise is more than just a trapping of mutualistic discourse. It actually forces you to think about their point, and leads to a greater understanding of what they are trying to say... which, in turn, allows you to waste less time by explaining a counterpoint to an argument that they didn't make. I try to make myself do this even when I'm not arguing with someone. If a task comes to me from my boss, I will do my best to rephrase it in my own words (not verbatim, unless it's something really simple) to make sure we're on the same page.
  - count 17y ago
    People who do this in every conversation annoy the everliving hell out of me. In a philosophical or rhetorical debate, it's an excellent strategy, but in day to day office conversations, ugh.
jrockway 17y ago
He told me that other people hear it as "I didn't listen to what you said, but am talking anyway." Don't worry, even if you don't say "yeah, but", I still think that.
- pieceofpeace 17y ago
  But why would you assume that?
cheald 17y ago
I think the nerd equivalent of this is "Well, actually...". Whenever I hear that, I kind of just mentally sigh and roll my eyes, and I say that as someone who identifies as a nerd with verbal communication issues.

ndl 17y ago

My impression (as it might be wrong) is that the words "I think" are contextually appropriate depending on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to voice an opinion for consideration but not push for it, then "I think" demonstrates your openness. If you are trying to argue for something directly and expect opposition, then you should state your case as directly and strongly as possible. A third option is when you are expected to be a voice of authority (ie. you're a tech and someone just asked you what Linux is). Authorities are supposed to know, and people will think you're BSing if you say "I think..." what you really know. I personally would prefer you admit if you're unsure, but some people would rather you act confident than disclaim.

ErrantX 17y ago
> A third option is when you are expected to be a voice of authority (ie. you're a tech and someone just asked you what Linux is). Authorities are supposed to know, and people will think you're BSing if you say "I thin In that scenario "I think" is not to do with opinion but uncertainty (it can be used for both). The definition of Linux is an established fact so if you know what it is there is no need for "I think".
- rbanffy 17y ago
  > The definition of Linux is an established fact so if you know what it is there is no need for "I think". So, you agree Linux is just a kernel and the whole operating system should be called GNU/Linux, right?
dkarl 17y ago
I personally would prefer you admit if you're unsure, but some people would rather you act confident than disclaim. For the third scenario, "it appears" can be useful, or if more justification is required, "it appears from the (server's behavior|available data|documentation I can find)." Then when you have to correct yourself later, it wasn't you who was misleading, but the situation. I find that this can be used in a completely honest way and often gives non-techy people a more accurate impression of the situation. It helps them understand both the tentative nature of your diagnosis and the obstacles you're struggling with. Win-win.

madair 17y ago

That was my reasoning before too. It's a deep rabbit hole of mental reasoning and social signaling, not to mention self-consciousness. I've often felt that it ties into the programmer's constant pressure to achieve syntactic accuracy and efficiency at solving problems. Not to mention that awareness that we're constantly making many small mistakes or misjudgments while coding. (Aside: It's got to be having a profound effect on society, given the pioneering that technologists have done getting us into the age of social tools like the iPhone and Facebook.) I've experimented with "What if" too. I imagine it works for others, but for me, and perhaps something about my tone of voice that I'm not realizing, it sounds patronizing, so it hasn't worked as well.

planettrash 17y ago

To place a disclaimer 'this is not fact' before everything you say, is a bit tedious.

uriel 17y ago
And superfluous.