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... in my opinion wink 1. Society does make sense. 2. People ought to tell you when you do something rude. At that time they can offer the reason (there is a

... in my opinion wink 1. Society does make sense. 2. People ought to tell you when you do something rude. At that time they can offer the reason (there is a reason). 3. The people in the example are poorly socialized. 4. The socially skilled are just as rare as the mathematically skilled. The average person is just as atrocious socially as mathematically.

dschobel 17y ago
That may all be true but in the absence of a compelling antagonistic narrative it makes for a poor online rant. Your position is way too nuanced. Try to reframe it as nerds vs the world or even better, nerds vs the normals and then maybe we can talk.
- idlewords 17y ago
  Throw in some sweeping generalizations based on your high school experience, find a way to tie it in to Lisp, and you might even make a career out of it.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    That works for either the "nerds vs. the world" or the "stop being such NERDS, NERDS" lines I've seen, lately.
- lucifer 17y ago
  "Try to reframe it as nerds vs the world or even better, nerds vs the normals and then maybe we can talk." 'I suggest' you consider Geek vs Nerd (or even more generally avant-garde vs outlier) to recognize that the antagonism is internal.
philwelch 17y ago
There's "socially skilled" (i.e. able to use social cues and interpersonal contact to accomplish goals) and "socially functional" (i.e. able to function in society with a minimum of problem). By definition, most people are socially functional. Throw a bunch of people together and they negotiate a social protocol. (Even people who fail at negotiating with social protocols can successfully negotiate a different social protocol in different circumstances--science fiction conventions, for instance.) Socially skilled people make good businessmen and politicians. They can engage in "powertalk" (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i...). They have charisma. They parlay a lucky strike running for the Senate into a successful Presidential run four years later. They radiate reality distortion fields. This is rather different than simply being able to speak the protocol.
AndrewDucker 17y ago
1) That's an interesting opinion. Got any proof? 2) Maybe they should, but they clearly don't. 3) Yes, they are poorly socialised. There may be many reasons for this, including built-in brain differences. 4) Most people, from what I can tell, is much better socially skilled than they are mathematically.
- gizmo 17y ago
  I'll take a stab at it. 1) Because society is predictable. Groups act in predictable ways. Everything that's predictable makes sense. 2) But good friends do. 3) A well socialized nerd can interact with different groups. He is comfortable with hostile nerd speak (where you must be able to back up every statement with layers of facts) and he's comfortable with small talk / casual conversations with "normal" people. Most socially well adjusted people on the other hand can _only_ talk in their setting. They're completely lost as soon as they're in an environment with different social rules. (Of course there are obvious exceptions) 4) I agree. But the difference between people who are socially really smooth and "most people" is probably just as big as the gap between "most people" and socially maladjusted outcasts. If I pay a little attention I see regular people make big social mistakes all the time.
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    Good points, but #3 isn't universal. Rather a few better-socialized nerds get annoyed at anti-social nerd behaviors.
- noverloop 17y ago
  4) all people have emotions, not so many have picked up the abstractions needed to do good math, and some even have bad emotional controls so that they can't see a rational process through for more then 10 minutes. this is relevant because social skills are largely dependent on emotions (love, trust, fun, ...)
xcombinator 17y ago
Agreed. Also the geek people that "study" or "learn" this stuff are the best in the world. They not only do what is needed, but know the reason too, witch many "naturals" don't do(they just are this way). It takes a lot of work and practice, but it could be learn like anything else.
- zackattack 17y ago
  you are not your fucking khakis anyone care to opine on a massive question i have: does body language precede mentalization? discuss.
  - lucifer 17y ago
    http://viewfromthecenter.com/files/images/uroboros-color.jpg http://viewfromthecenter.com/files/images/uroboros-color.jpg
    - zackattack 17y ago
      what
orblivion 17y ago
2. (there is a reason) Ok, so explain to me what's so rude about holding my fork in my right hand?
- Tichy 17y ago
  I didn't know that it is. But anyway, I guess society is real, that is, "a sum greater than it's parts". By sticking to the rules, you signal conformity with society. If you don't follow the rules, but still dine at the table, you might just be a parasite of society. That's probably not the real reason, but that doesn't prove that there is no reason. Frankly I am surprised that nerds would give up on questions like that - I thought they LIKE puzzles? Things like that are often being studied in economics, I think. Personally I think it is pretty fascinating. (Forks are maybe an especially stupid example, for example dating and gender roles are more relevant).
- antipaganda 17y ago
  In many parts of the world, that's the hand you customarily wash your arse with. So, it's a practical measure, to stop you getting faecal matter on your food.
  - someperson 17y ago
    but it's still fine to hold a knife in your right hand?
    - michaelcampbell 17y ago
      Yes, but not while simultaneously wiping your arse with it. Why is left as an exercise for the reader.
  - jackowayed 17y ago
    You got it backwards. You use your left hand for that and reserve the generally-more-dexterous right hand for everything else. That's why, for example, you shake hands with your right hand, and why in those parts of the world, doing pretty much anything with your left hand is still a grave offense.

dschobel 17y ago

That may all be true but in the absence of a compelling antagonistic narrative it makes for a poor online rant. Your position is way too nuanced. Try to reframe it as nerds vs the world or even better, nerds vs the normals and then maybe we can talk.

idlewords 17y ago
Throw in some sweeping generalizations based on your high school experience, find a way to tie it in to Lisp, and you might even make a career out of it.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- Semiapies 17y ago
  That works for either the "nerds vs. the world" or the "stop being such NERDS, NERDS" lines I've seen, lately.
lucifer 17y ago
"Try to reframe it as nerds vs the world or even better, nerds vs the normals and then maybe we can talk." 'I suggest' you consider Geek vs Nerd (or even more generally avant-garde vs outlier) to recognize that the antagonism is internal.

philwelch 17y ago

There's "socially skilled" (i.e. able to use social cues and interpersonal contact to accomplish goals) and "socially functional" (i.e. able to function in society with a minimum of problem). By definition, most people are socially functional. Throw a bunch of people together and they negotiate a social protocol. (Even people who fail at negotiating with social protocols can successfully negotiate a different social protocol in different circumstances--science fiction conventions, for instance.) Socially skilled people make good businessmen and politicians. They can engage in "powertalk" (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i...). They have charisma. They parlay a lucky strike running for the Senate into a successful Presidential run four years later. They radiate reality distortion fields. This is rather different than simply being able to speak the protocol.

AndrewDucker 17y ago

1) That's an interesting opinion. Got any proof? 2) Maybe they should, but they clearly don't. 3) Yes, they are poorly socialised. There may be many reasons for this, including built-in brain differences. 4) Most people, from what I can tell, is much better socially skilled than they are mathematically.

gizmo 17y ago
I'll take a stab at it. 1) Because society is predictable. Groups act in predictable ways. Everything that's predictable makes sense. 2) But good friends do. 3) A well socialized nerd can interact with different groups. He is comfortable with hostile nerd speak (where you must be able to back up every statement with layers of facts) and he's comfortable with small talk / casual conversations with "normal" people. Most socially well adjusted people on the other hand can _only_ talk in their setting. They're completely lost as soon as they're in an environment with different social rules. (Of course there are obvious exceptions) 4) I agree. But the difference between people who are socially really smooth and "most people" is probably just as big as the gap between "most people" and socially maladjusted outcasts. If I pay a little attention I see regular people make big social mistakes all the time.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  Good points, but #3 isn't universal. Rather a few better-socialized nerds get annoyed at anti-social nerd behaviors.
noverloop 17y ago
4) all people have emotions, not so many have picked up the abstractions needed to do good math, and some even have bad emotional controls so that they can't see a rational process through for more then 10 minutes. this is relevant because social skills are largely dependent on emotions (love, trust, fun, ...)

xcombinator 17y ago

Agreed. Also the geek people that "study" or "learn" this stuff are the best in the world. They not only do what is needed, but know the reason too, witch many "naturals" don't do(they just are this way). It takes a lot of work and practice, but it could be learn like anything else.

zackattack 17y ago
you are not your fucking khakis anyone care to opine on a massive question i have: does body language precede mentalization? discuss.
- lucifer 17y ago
  http://viewfromthecenter.com/files/images/uroboros-color.jpg http://viewfromthecenter.com/files/images/uroboros-color.jpg
  - zackattack 17y ago
    what

orblivion 17y ago

2. (there is a reason) Ok, so explain to me what's so rude about holding my fork in my right hand?

Tichy 17y ago
I didn't know that it is. But anyway, I guess society is real, that is, "a sum greater than it's parts". By sticking to the rules, you signal conformity with society. If you don't follow the rules, but still dine at the table, you might just be a parasite of society. That's probably not the real reason, but that doesn't prove that there is no reason. Frankly I am surprised that nerds would give up on questions like that - I thought they LIKE puzzles? Things like that are often being studied in economics, I think. Personally I think it is pretty fascinating. (Forks are maybe an especially stupid example, for example dating and gender roles are more relevant).
antipaganda 17y ago
In many parts of the world, that's the hand you customarily wash your arse with. So, it's a practical measure, to stop you getting faecal matter on your food.
- someperson 17y ago
  but it's still fine to hold a knife in your right hand?
  - michaelcampbell 17y ago
    Yes, but not while simultaneously wiping your arse with it. Why is left as an exercise for the reader.
- jackowayed 17y ago
  You got it backwards. You use your left hand for that and reserve the generally-more-dexterous right hand for everything else. That's why, for example, you shake hands with your right hand, and why in those parts of the world, doing pretty much anything with your left hand is still a grave offense.