9 ms·

Absolutely. Corollary: When running a country, protectionism of tech businesses can really pay off if your population is large enough. Should every country fo

by jfoster 10y ago

Absolutely. Corollary: When running a country, protectionism of tech businesses can really pay off if your population is large enough. Should every country follow Beijing's example? I'm not sure it leads to a good outcome globally, but on a per-country basis it seems like countries with large populations do have something to gain by acting selfishly.

Drakim 10y ago
Protectionism is a sorta tragedy of the commons type of deal, if everybody did it the advantage it offered would disappear.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    What's wrong if black people only pocket black people's money and white people only pocket white people's money? (And of course if anyone chooses to engage with those of the wrong group, violence will be used to stop them.)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - akshatpradhan 10y ago
      So is protectionism then the same as racism?
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        I simply asked a question. I see nothing in your argument which distinguishes between protectionism motivated by racism and protection motivated by nationalism. What principle do you use to distinguish between them? (Incidentally, if you want my view, it's the following. Racism and patriotism/nationalism is just a feeling and is intrinsically harmless. However they often motivate intrinsically harmful behaviors such as protectionism or other more direct forms of tribal violence.)
  - Drakim 10y ago
    I don't want a world where my birthplace decides what news outlets I may read (can't have a non-local news source spill the beans!), what services I can use (use our local email variant, the government has approved it!), what products I may buy (special imported legally at only x20 markup after governmental approval). I see myself as a citizen of the world, and I don't want to be put into a tiny nationalistic box as "my rightful place in life".
    - x5n1 10y ago
      There are many wants such as the want to be able to move to wherever or get a job wherever. The fact is that there are serious impositions of limited mobility on everyone as it is. You can't just become an American citizen because you want that, why should have some sort of birthright to use their products for the benefit of their economy and their country. Does it not make sense to shore up the economic systems of your own country?
nametakenobv 10y ago
Every country on track to become a major super power enacts policies of protectionism at the beginning. America had one of the biggest. In fact, American independence spurred from imposed protectionism from Britain on tea. Later they imposed the same policies for their own benefit. It is only natural to do it.
- byw 10y ago
  I'd say it's very much alive now-a-days. If it wasn't for protectionism, the American auto industry would've collapsed long ago (not adopting international safety standards, inferior product line for NA market).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
yummyfajitas 10y ago
What does China actually gain from this? For the government the answer is clear: locally situated companies that they have total control over. WeChat will obviously never pull a Google style "encrypt all the things" - they'll happily help the state reduce the credit scores of political dissidents and anyone who is friends with them. For politically connected cronies (e.g. WeChat owners), the answer is also clear. But if you are just a Chinese citizen, what do you gain? Inferior substitutes for the Google/Facebook/etc infrastructure? Isolation from the rest of the world? [1] This excellent article argues that WeChat's "conversational interface" is just a crude hack around app store restrictions. http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps.html http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps....
- bbody 10y ago
  > But if you are just a Chinese citizen, what do you gain? Apps that are localized to their needs. > Inferior substitutes for the Google/Facebook/etc infrastructure? They aren't necessarily inferior. WeChat for example has a very intuitive privacy settings, which make a lot more sense than the complicated Facebook ones. > Isolation from the rest of the world? Many of these apps are expanding outside of China (To mixed success).
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    If apps localized to one's needs provide value then there is no need for protectionism. People will choose to use the localized apps. India has a thriving ecosystem of local apps, but with negligible protectionism [1]. Uber, Ola, Zomato and others do a great job of localizing for Indian needs. Based on recent experiences I'd say Uber does a better job than Ola in this regard, in fact. When I visited Malaysia, several folks I spoke to said they have a similar ecosystem. The best thing is that Indians/Malaysians don't have to give up Gmail or Facebook if they don't want to. [1] At least negligible protectionism w.r.t other apps. Ola competes on equal footing with Uber, but both suffer from protectionism w.r.t. legacy taxi providers.
    - bbody 10y ago

by jfoster 10y ago

Drakim 10y ago

Protectionism is a sorta tragedy of the commons type of deal, if everybody did it the advantage it offered would disappear.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  What's wrong if black people only pocket black people's money and white people only pocket white people's money? (And of course if anyone chooses to engage with those of the wrong group, violence will be used to stop them.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - akshatpradhan 10y ago
    So is protectionism then the same as racism?
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      I simply asked a question. I see nothing in your argument which distinguishes between protectionism motivated by racism and protection motivated by nationalism. What principle do you use to distinguish between them? (Incidentally, if you want my view, it's the following. Racism and patriotism/nationalism is just a feeling and is intrinsically harmless. However they often motivate intrinsically harmful behaviors such as protectionism or other more direct forms of tribal violence.)
- Drakim 10y ago
  I don't want a world where my birthplace decides what news outlets I may read (can't have a non-local news source spill the beans!), what services I can use (use our local email variant, the government has approved it!), what products I may buy (special imported legally at only x20 markup after governmental approval). I see myself as a citizen of the world, and I don't want to be put into a tiny nationalistic box as "my rightful place in life".
  - x5n1 10y ago
    There are many wants such as the want to be able to move to wherever or get a job wherever. The fact is that there are serious impositions of limited mobility on everyone as it is. You can't just become an American citizen because you want that, why should have some sort of birthright to use their products for the benefit of their economy and their country. Does it not make sense to shore up the economic systems of your own country?

nametakenobv 10y ago

Every country on track to become a major super power enacts policies of protectionism at the beginning. America had one of the biggest. In fact, American independence spurred from imposed protectionism from Britain on tea. Later they imposed the same policies for their own benefit. It is only natural to do it.

byw 10y ago
I'd say it's very much alive now-a-days. If it wasn't for protectionism, the American auto industry would've collapsed long ago (not adopting international safety standards, inferior product line for NA market).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

yummyfajitas 10y ago

What does China actually gain from this? For the government the answer is clear: locally situated companies that they have total control over. WeChat will obviously never pull a Google style "encrypt all the things" - they'll happily help the state reduce the credit scores of political dissidents and anyone who is friends with them. For politically connected cronies (e.g. WeChat owners), the answer is also clear. But if you are just a Chinese citizen, what do you gain? Inferior substitutes for the Google/Facebook/etc infrastructure? Isolation from the rest of the world? [1] This excellent article argues that WeChat's "conversational interface" is just a crude hack around app store restrictions. http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps.html http://dangrover.com/blog/2016/04/20/bots-wont-replace-apps....

bbody 10y ago
> But if you are just a Chinese citizen, what do you gain? Apps that are localized to their needs. > Inferior substitutes for the Google/Facebook/etc infrastructure? They aren't necessarily inferior. WeChat for example has a very intuitive privacy settings, which make a lot more sense than the complicated Facebook ones. > Isolation from the rest of the world? Many of these apps are expanding outside of China (To mixed success).
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  If apps localized to one's needs provide value then there is no need for protectionism. People will choose to use the localized apps. India has a thriving ecosystem of local apps, but with negligible protectionism [1]. Uber, Ola, Zomato and others do a great job of localizing for Indian needs. Based on recent experiences I'd say Uber does a better job than Ola in this regard, in fact. When I visited Malaysia, several folks I spoke to said they have a similar ecosystem. The best thing is that Indians/Malaysians don't have to give up Gmail or Facebook if they don't want to. [1] At least negligible protectionism w.r.t other apps. Ola competes on equal footing with Uber, but both suffer from protectionism w.r.t. legacy taxi providers.
  - bbody 10y ago