6 ms·

I hate the current trend for websites to have about a page's worth of information spread over about eight pages' worth of space. I'm used to seeing it on startu

by dri_ft 10y ago

I hate the current trend for websites to have about a page's worth of information spread over about eight pages' worth of space. I'm used to seeing it on startup websites, where it doesn't bother me so much because I expect those to be trendy. But I'm recently seeing it infect websites of old school geek projects that I feel should know better. This is one example and the new emacs website a few days ago was another.

xenophonf 10y ago
I'll allow it. Lisp in general (and Common Lisp in particular) desperately needs better marketing, which unfortunately is susceptible to the vagaries of fashion. If dressing it up a little makes it more attractive to the next generation, then mission accomplished.
- dri_ft 10y ago
  You're right. Perhaps I just feel a little sad that it's necessary, though.
- janoc 10y ago
  Sorry, but a "website" which is basically a set of powerpoint slides in Javascript is certainly not going to help "market" anything. And to add insult to the injury, when you actually suffer through those empty marketing slogans, you get down to a big link "Start here" - which unveils a link to few very basic tutorials. What exactly is the point of such "website"? The information value of this is zero. What a waste of time. A much better (but not the latest web framework buzzword compliant) resource is this: http://www.lisperati.com/ http://www.lisperati.com/
  - cname 10y ago
    You may have found it to be a waste of time, but I thought it was a pretty good introduction. Probably the furthest I've gotten into Common Lisp over the past ten years or so.
- jkrems 10y ago
  The problem is not that it's flashy but that it's hard to use. You have to accidentally scroll because the site is designed to hide the fact that there's more content at the bottom. At first glance it's a huge blue rectangle with a big "Common Lisp" in the middle, no other information. It's the kind of website someone who isn't already really motivated might just close because they can't immediately figure out how to proceed. So no, good marketing isn't an argument for this kind of website, if anything I think it's one against.
  - cname 10y ago
    I can almost see your point, but these days I think most people who are interested in programming languages know to scroll, and that doesn't seem particularly onerous to me. Granted, they probably should make it a little more obvious, but it's not that bad.
informatimago 10y ago
Have a loook at http://cliki.net/ http://cliki.net/ it's where the real information is.
alphapapa 10y ago
Seriously, the entire first screen is empty space and "Common Lisp". Haven't these people heard of "the fold"? Please, someone, anyone, tell me what the point is of having no information on the entire first screen. This is a web page, not a PPT with an intro slide! Whenever I see this pattern, I usually hit the back button, because it tells me that the site is a waste of time, put together by someone who doesn't critique their own work and has no attention to detail (not that something as enormous as the big, blue, empty first screen is a "detail"). The entire first page could be filled with useful information, key points to get people's attention, show Lisp's advantages, and convince people to give it a try. Instead it's useless, and visitors have to dig through screen after screen to find anything. Most people will not bother. If they were interested enough to put that much effort into it, they'd probably already be using Lisp.

by dri_ft 10y ago

xenophonf 10y ago

I'll allow it. Lisp in general (and Common Lisp in particular) desperately needs better marketing, which unfortunately is susceptible to the vagaries of fashion. If dressing it up a little makes it more attractive to the next generation, then mission accomplished.

dri_ft 10y ago
You're right. Perhaps I just feel a little sad that it's necessary, though.
janoc 10y ago
Sorry, but a "website" which is basically a set of powerpoint slides in Javascript is certainly not going to help "market" anything. And to add insult to the injury, when you actually suffer through those empty marketing slogans, you get down to a big link "Start here" - which unveils a link to few very basic tutorials. What exactly is the point of such "website"? The information value of this is zero. What a waste of time. A much better (but not the latest web framework buzzword compliant) resource is this: http://www.lisperati.com/ http://www.lisperati.com/
- cname 10y ago
  You may have found it to be a waste of time, but I thought it was a pretty good introduction. Probably the furthest I've gotten into Common Lisp over the past ten years or so.
jkrems 10y ago
The problem is not that it's flashy but that it's hard to use. You have to accidentally scroll because the site is designed to hide the fact that there's more content at the bottom. At first glance it's a huge blue rectangle with a big "Common Lisp" in the middle, no other information. It's the kind of website someone who isn't already really motivated might just close because they can't immediately figure out how to proceed. So no, good marketing isn't an argument for this kind of website, if anything I think it's one against.
- cname 10y ago
  I can almost see your point, but these days I think most people who are interested in programming languages know to scroll, and that doesn't seem particularly onerous to me. Granted, they probably should make it a little more obvious, but it's not that bad.

informatimago 10y ago

Have a loook at http://cliki.net/ http://cliki.net/ it's where the real information is.

alphapapa 10y ago

Seriously, the entire first screen is empty space and "Common Lisp". Haven't these people heard of "the fold"? Please, someone, anyone, tell me what the point is of having no information on the entire first screen. This is a web page, not a PPT with an intro slide! Whenever I see this pattern, I usually hit the back button, because it tells me that the site is a waste of time, put together by someone who doesn't critique their own work and has no attention to detail (not that something as enormous as the big, blue, empty first screen is a "detail"). The entire first page could be filled with useful information, key points to get people's attention, show Lisp's advantages, and convince people to give it a try. Instead it's useless, and visitors have to dig through screen after screen to find anything. Most people will not bother. If they were interested enough to put that much effort into it, they'd probably already be using Lisp.