4 ms·

In a meet-up I can actually call out the BS of the presenter or at least thoroughly ask honest questions. In a safe space, even if my question is honest and to

by sremani 10y ago

In a meet-up I can actually call out the BS of the presenter or at least thoroughly ask honest questions. In a safe space, even if my question is honest and to the point, its validity is determined by the state of mind of the responder. So, that is there. The concept of safe space is nothing new, people usually call it home or club. But to impose safe space in the center of town square is the problem. edit: also safe spaces promote acceptance of dogma over free thinking, which Universities claim to be centers of.

SolaceQuantum 10y ago
Interestingly enough at the safe space I went to, there was heavy discussion over whether BDSM should be allowed to be considered an alternative sexuality comparable to homo/bi/pansexuality. There was heavy disagreement and productive debate over this topic in a "safe space" for bi/pansexuals at the university. I don't understand how there was dogma over free thinking in this context. I keep trying to understand where my experiences with things labeled "safe space" align with a rather big voice on the internet and within my peers that "safe space" meetups are somehow oppressive or regressive to ideals and communication. I wouldn't be offended that there exists literary workshops that I cannot attend or that there are physics conferences I wouldn't be welcome in because I know nothing of physics. Could you suggest a "safe space" for me to enter and observe for myself that would better align with this issue? I understand there aren't any serious surveys or academic study listing experiences of "safe space" and their repercussions so I've been trying to seek out and gather my own data.
467568985476 10y ago
Have you ever been to a safe space and tried to participate in discussion? I think the grandparent comment is spot on. Honest questions in good faith are honored, even when they come from ignorance. What's not honored is people looking for a debate that involves "calling out BS". It's not the safe space's responsibility to educate you on social issues. The whole point is to exclude people who deliberately lack context and understanding so that the discussion can be had on more complex topics. Also, as a straight, white person myself, I understand that there are some discussions where my opinions are irrelevant and unwanted because I simply haven't experienced what others have and am unable to understand and empathize as intimately. Excluding my opinion isn't a slight against free thinking, it's a shortcut because I have nothing to contribute.
- themartorana 10y ago
  "The whole point is to exclude people" That's pretty much it. Also to actualize through the echo chamber.
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    Well, yes, if a prestigious research team in MIT excludes people who don't do computer science at all to participate in their research, is that also an actualization of an echo chamber? Should it also be protested?
    - themartorana 10y ago
      This is silly. If anyone not trained in computer science and not at MIT still found a way to submit evidence or proof invalidating a hypothesis by said research team, they would not only embrace the evidence, they'd probably be pretty happy about it.
- sremani 10y ago
  Here is an example, A woman who is an apostate of Islam was heckled in a prestigious University in England while giving her presentation, and the Muslim students claimed that the University is a safe space and that she should not allowed to speak. You know the best part, the University's feminist group concurred with their Islamic brothers over this poor woman's right activist who happens to be an apostate. So, there you have it. I could care less, where there about Muslim Student Association, where they sit in dorm and practice in peace, but they extend the definition of safe space to ENTIRE University and anything that is "offensive" to them cannot happen in the campus. That is the problem, I am stating.
- tbrownaw 10y ago
  Also, as a straight, white person myself, I understand that there are some discussions where my opinions are irrelevant and unwanted because I simply haven't experienced what others have and am unable to understand and empathize as intimately. Excluding my opinion isn't a slight against free thinking, it's a shortcut because I have nothing to contribute. Or in other words, outside perspectives are never useful? All the advice about having papers / presentations proofread by people not involved, about looking to outside sources to check if you're stuck in a rut, about the value of diversity of backgrounds and opinions, is all bullshit and worse than useless?
adrusi 10y ago
The concept of safe space is nothing new, people usually call it home or club. I was going to jump in and say this. Basically everyone has a "safe space" that they go to every day, but students often don't, especially the freshmen in residence randomly assigned roommates. To designate a space on campus where students can go where their ideology will be respected no matter what just compensates for the fact they don't have a home that they can kick people out of. The problem is that the safe space attitude spreads to the rest of the campus, which isn't OK, but it happens because of faculty attitudes and risk of litigation, and it would happen even if no designated safe spaces existed. The way I see it, designating a safe space is a good way for universities to keep dogma out of classrooms.

by sremani 10y ago

SolaceQuantum 10y ago

Interestingly enough at the safe space I went to, there was heavy discussion over whether BDSM should be allowed to be considered an alternative sexuality comparable to homo/bi/pansexuality. There was heavy disagreement and productive debate over this topic in a "safe space" for bi/pansexuals at the university. I don't understand how there was dogma over free thinking in this context. I keep trying to understand where my experiences with things labeled "safe space" align with a rather big voice on the internet and within my peers that "safe space" meetups are somehow oppressive or regressive to ideals and communication. I wouldn't be offended that there exists literary workshops that I cannot attend or that there are physics conferences I wouldn't be welcome in because I know nothing of physics. Could you suggest a "safe space" for me to enter and observe for myself that would better align with this issue? I understand there aren't any serious surveys or academic study listing experiences of "safe space" and their repercussions so I've been trying to seek out and gather my own data.

467568985476 10y ago

Have you ever been to a safe space and tried to participate in discussion? I think the grandparent comment is spot on. Honest questions in good faith are honored, even when they come from ignorance. What's not honored is people looking for a debate that involves "calling out BS". It's not the safe space's responsibility to educate you on social issues. The whole point is to exclude people who deliberately lack context and understanding so that the discussion can be had on more complex topics. Also, as a straight, white person myself, I understand that there are some discussions where my opinions are irrelevant and unwanted because I simply haven't experienced what others have and am unable to understand and empathize as intimately. Excluding my opinion isn't a slight against free thinking, it's a shortcut because I have nothing to contribute.

themartorana 10y ago
"The whole point is to exclude people" That's pretty much it. Also to actualize through the echo chamber.
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  Well, yes, if a prestigious research team in MIT excludes people who don't do computer science at all to participate in their research, is that also an actualization of an echo chamber? Should it also be protested?
  - themartorana 10y ago
    This is silly. If anyone not trained in computer science and not at MIT still found a way to submit evidence or proof invalidating a hypothesis by said research team, they would not only embrace the evidence, they'd probably be pretty happy about it.
sremani 10y ago
Here is an example, A woman who is an apostate of Islam was heckled in a prestigious University in England while giving her presentation, and the Muslim students claimed that the University is a safe space and that she should not allowed to speak. You know the best part, the University's feminist group concurred with their Islamic brothers over this poor woman's right activist who happens to be an apostate. So, there you have it. I could care less, where there about Muslim Student Association, where they sit in dorm and practice in peace, but they extend the definition of safe space to ENTIRE University and anything that is "offensive" to them cannot happen in the campus. That is the problem, I am stating.
tbrownaw 10y ago
Also, as a straight, white person myself, I understand that there are some discussions where my opinions are irrelevant and unwanted because I simply haven't experienced what others have and am unable to understand and empathize as intimately. Excluding my opinion isn't a slight against free thinking, it's a shortcut because I have nothing to contribute. Or in other words, outside perspectives are never useful? All the advice about having papers / presentations proofread by people not involved, about looking to outside sources to check if you're stuck in a rut, about the value of diversity of backgrounds and opinions, is all bullshit and worse than useless?

adrusi 10y ago

The concept of safe space is nothing new, people usually call it home or club. I was going to jump in and say this. Basically everyone has a "safe space" that they go to every day, but students often don't, especially the freshmen in residence randomly assigned roommates. To designate a space on campus where students can go where their ideology will be respected no matter what just compensates for the fact they don't have a home that they can kick people out of. The problem is that the safe space attitude spreads to the rest of the campus, which isn't OK, but it happens because of faculty attitudes and risk of litigation, and it would happen even if no designated safe spaces existed. The way I see it, designating a safe space is a good way for universities to keep dogma out of classrooms.