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But that's exactly my point. Instead of having a bunch of barely connected Internets walled off by language, why not standardize language and have one global v

by jnky 10y ago

But that's exactly my point. Instead of having a bunch of barely connected Internets walled off by language, why not standardize language and have one global venue of communication, where everyone can work together? I am German and I often come across this with my friends, all of whom speak English as a second language. Yet they consume mostly the German parts of the Internet out of habit and convenience. But as far as I can tell, they are worse off for it, since they don't have access to a lot of the stuff the Internet has to offer. That is especially obvious when searching for IT/tech/science topics, but also relevant in other contexts.

Matt3o12_ 10y ago
I couldn't agree more! As a German, all my friends always ask me why my phone is in English and they just won't understand how much more the "English Internet" has to offer. Just the other day, we had to look up something for our school and I simply sumerized the first few lines of the English Wikipedia article and my teacher was amazed how quickly I got those information. Furthermore, English allows you to see topics from many different views – people from all over the world express their opinions which is much more then most German Jornalist find relevant/agree with.
- krebby 10y ago
  I'm the opposite. I'm a native English speaker but I put my phone / computer in German so I can keep up my language skills. It constantly teaches me new constructs in German just by using my phone, and by this point most of the concepts have become second nature to me.
fiatjaf 10y ago
Same here. The "brazilian internet" is terrible, and I see brazilians who do speak English only browsing the internet in Portuguese, everywhere.
coldtea 10y ago
>Instead of having a bunch of barely connected Internets walled off by language, why not standardize language and have one global venue of communication, where everyone can work together? Because I don't want a huge monoculture, and the end goal is not to have "everyone work together in one way" (which sounds like something from the Third Reich), but to let a thousand flowers bloom. Ease of doing business is not the be all end all criterion...
- jnky 10y ago
  First off, I disagree that a common language means a common culture. There are a lot of distinct cultures that share a language. Personally I don't care that much about the ease of doing business. Rather, I think standardizing on a language would have a real benefit for humanity as a whole. Apart from practical considerations, think about how often people from other countries are somewhat dehumanized as an "other" or "the enemy" without you being able to get a view of the situation from the other side of the fence because of the language barrier. I'm wondering for instance if the Cold War could have happened in a world where both parties share a language while being connected over the Internet. Also, congrats on the unnecessary Nazi comparison.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Also, congrats on the unnecessary Nazi comparison. Not meant to offend (didn't even knew the parent was German at the time, thought I was an American), but it wasn't an gratuitous reference either. It's not like someone in an internet forum calling someone a "nazi" because they disagree with them or anything. I legitimately believe that there are plenty of legitimate lessons to be learned (to avoid, of course) from the Nazis, as WWII and the Holocaust is the single most deadly and morally disastrous event of the modern era. And these kind of schemes for "one global government" / "one common language" etc, do have parallels and historical precedents on ideas such that of the Third Reich. An occupied, German speaking Europe, if not world, was indeed one of their stated goals.
    - jnky 10y ago
      > Not meant to offend (didn't even knew the parent was German at the time, thought I was an American), but it wasn't an gratuitous reference either. It's not like someone in an internet forum calling someone a "nazi" because they disagree with them or anything. The comment you took your quote from already mentioned that I'm German. That's alright though. I'm not "offended" by the Nazi comparison because of my German heritage. I just wanted to highlight what I perceived to be needless hyperbole that inevitably derails the discussion about the idea at hand by way of Godwin's Law. > I legitimately believe that there are plenty of legitimate lessons to be learned (to avoid, of course) from the Nazis, as WWII and the Holocaust is the single most deadly and morally disastrous event of the modern era. Agreed. > And these kind of schemes for "one global government" / "one common language" etc, do have parallels and historical precedents on ideas such that of the Third Reich. An occupied, German speaking Europe, if not world, was indeed one of their stated goals. Your argument is basically: "The Nazis did X, hence we should never do X - for all X". I think this is a fallacy. There has to be difference between subduing Europe/the world and proposing to standardize language as a tool of communication for greater peace and more collaboration. I don't think choosing a standard language is any more sinister than choosing standard units of measurement or base 10 numbers.
yongjik 10y ago
When the great writers of 1950s envisioned the future of the computers, they depicted a giant centralized repository of all human knowledge, working tirelessly for the benefit of the society, because it was simply unthinkable to them that such a great power would be used for anything less grand. Instead, (borrowing a popular internet meme) we use the computing power to throw birds at pigs. I think you're misguided in looking at the Internet as "one global venue of communication." Users of the Internet don't need a network for global cooperation. They don't need a better world. They need a tool where you can talk to your friends and send them funny cat video (or the latest kernel patch, or whatever they feel like to share at that moment).
cortesoft 10y ago
This will be solved as computer become better and better translators. We will be able to read, write, speak, and listen in whatever language we want, and computers will translate between them for us.

by jnky 10y ago

Matt3o12_ 10y ago

I couldn't agree more! As a German, all my friends always ask me why my phone is in English and they just won't understand how much more the "English Internet" has to offer. Just the other day, we had to look up something for our school and I simply sumerized the first few lines of the English Wikipedia article and my teacher was amazed how quickly I got those information. Furthermore, English allows you to see topics from many different views – people from all over the world express their opinions which is much more then most German Jornalist find relevant/agree with.

krebby 10y ago
I'm the opposite. I'm a native English speaker but I put my phone / computer in German so I can keep up my language skills. It constantly teaches me new constructs in German just by using my phone, and by this point most of the concepts have become second nature to me.

fiatjaf 10y ago

Same here. The "brazilian internet" is terrible, and I see brazilians who do speak English only browsing the internet in Portuguese, everywhere.

coldtea 10y ago

>Instead of having a bunch of barely connected Internets walled off by language, why not standardize language and have one global venue of communication, where everyone can work together? Because I don't want a huge monoculture, and the end goal is not to have "everyone work together in one way" (which sounds like something from the Third Reich), but to let a thousand flowers bloom. Ease of doing business is not the be all end all criterion...

jnky 10y ago
First off, I disagree that a common language means a common culture. There are a lot of distinct cultures that share a language. Personally I don't care that much about the ease of doing business. Rather, I think standardizing on a language would have a real benefit for humanity as a whole. Apart from practical considerations, think about how often people from other countries are somewhat dehumanized as an "other" or "the enemy" without you being able to get a view of the situation from the other side of the fence because of the language barrier. I'm wondering for instance if the Cold War could have happened in a world where both parties share a language while being connected over the Internet. Also, congrats on the unnecessary Nazi comparison.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Also, congrats on the unnecessary Nazi comparison. Not meant to offend (didn't even knew the parent was German at the time, thought I was an American), but it wasn't an gratuitous reference either. It's not like someone in an internet forum calling someone a "nazi" because they disagree with them or anything. I legitimately believe that there are plenty of legitimate lessons to be learned (to avoid, of course) from the Nazis, as WWII and the Holocaust is the single most deadly and morally disastrous event of the modern era. And these kind of schemes for "one global government" / "one common language" etc, do have parallels and historical precedents on ideas such that of the Third Reich. An occupied, German speaking Europe, if not world, was indeed one of their stated goals.
  - jnky 10y ago
    > Not meant to offend (didn't even knew the parent was German at the time, thought I was an American), but it wasn't an gratuitous reference either. It's not like someone in an internet forum calling someone a "nazi" because they disagree with them or anything. The comment you took your quote from already mentioned that I'm German. That's alright though. I'm not "offended" by the Nazi comparison because of my German heritage. I just wanted to highlight what I perceived to be needless hyperbole that inevitably derails the discussion about the idea at hand by way of Godwin's Law. > I legitimately believe that there are plenty of legitimate lessons to be learned (to avoid, of course) from the Nazis, as WWII and the Holocaust is the single most deadly and morally disastrous event of the modern era. Agreed. > And these kind of schemes for "one global government" / "one common language" etc, do have parallels and historical precedents on ideas such that of the Third Reich. An occupied, German speaking Europe, if not world, was indeed one of their stated goals. Your argument is basically: "The Nazis did X, hence we should never do X - for all X". I think this is a fallacy. There has to be difference between subduing Europe/the world and proposing to standardize language as a tool of communication for greater peace and more collaboration. I don't think choosing a standard language is any more sinister than choosing standard units of measurement or base 10 numbers.

yongjik 10y ago

When the great writers of 1950s envisioned the future of the computers, they depicted a giant centralized repository of all human knowledge, working tirelessly for the benefit of the society, because it was simply unthinkable to them that such a great power would be used for anything less grand. Instead, (borrowing a popular internet meme) we use the computing power to throw birds at pigs. I think you're misguided in looking at the Internet as "one global venue of communication." Users of the Internet don't need a network for global cooperation. They don't need a better world. They need a tool where you can talk to your friends and send them funny cat video (or the latest kernel patch, or whatever they feel like to share at that moment).

cortesoft 10y ago

This will be solved as computer become better and better translators. We will be able to read, write, speak, and listen in whatever language we want, and computers will translate between them for us.