5 ms·

> Console gaming when it Just Worked. Nowadays when I pop in a game it's update this and update that, long loading times etc. This might be about to change wit

by davb 10y ago

> Console gaming when it Just Worked. Nowadays when I pop in a game it's update this and update that, long loading times etc. This might be about to change with Nintendo's upcoming NX system rumoured to use ROM cartridges rather than optical media. The cart-based 3DS has loading times comparable to the Mega Drive or SNES (negligible). And the cartridge distribution model is great for this with sub-par internet connections.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
I strongly suspect the NX will be based on a game streaming service like OnLive. If you look at most of the rumours with that in mind, they make more sense.
- davb 10y ago
  I very much doubt it. They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world). Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    > "They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world)." With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console. Furthermore, Nintendo has said that the NX is not designed to be a replacement for the Wii U, meaning that Nintendo may still plan to sell the Wii U, and therefore would have a product to sell in emerging markets (in addition to their handheld devices). http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/15/nintendo-nx-not-wii-u-3ds-replacement http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/15/nintendo-nx-n... "Following a Nintendo investor briefing, officially translated here, president Satoru Iwata says that although the NX will be "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept," he does not "intend it to become a simple "replacement" for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U."" Carrying on, consider the following points from the GFK Research Group leak: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumored-nintendo-nx-specs-leaked-could-support-4k-streaming-1313462 http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumored-nintendo-nx-spe... "Connect with other Nintendo players around the world via the Nintendo Network" "Gameplay flows between Nintendo NX console and Nintendo NX handheld device" "Supports 4K/60fps video streaming" "Gameplay graphics at 900p/60fps" > "Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model." Nintendo have been slow to develop their online offerings, but they're increasingly working in that direction. Nintendo is also keen to get into the mobile gaming market, which a game-streaming platform would help with: http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-and-dena-announce-a-business-and-capital-alliance/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-and-dena-announce... Furthermore, even if such a move to a streaming, subscription-based service would be innovative for Nintendo, the sort of 'Netflix for gaming' approach is nothing new in the market. Aside from OnLive as mentioned before, Sony are already doing it with PlayStation Now. Nintendo can learn from earlier attempts in the market, they don't have to go in blind. http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/playstation-now-1213666/review http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/playstation-now-1213... Lastly, if you believe some of the rumoured specs (which I personally think are mostly driven by wishful thinking), the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform.
    - jerf 10y ago
      "the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform." You're confusing me. One minute you seem to be discussing streaming from the console, the next streaming to the console. They may coincidentally use the same English word but technically they have nothing to do with each other. Streaming from the console may require a bit of extra oomph, but if you're designing it into the console from scratch you can add some custom hardware for it and it shouldn't increase general-purpose computing requirements. Streaming to the console by no stretch of the imagination requires anything to be 3x more powerful than the PS4; if you added 4K output to its graphics card, a XBox 360 would be plenty powerful enough to stream even 4K to the console. Sending video streams to the hardware decoder does not take a lot of power. Either way you don't need a lot more power for "streaming" either in or out. As for specs, it will be coming out 3 years after the PS4 came out. The PS4/XBone generation is generally considered a bit underpowered compared to what PCs could already do at the time. CPUs haven't been advancing much but GPUs have still be clockin' along in the past 3 years. Being merely 3x more powerful than a PS4 is still Nintendo being conservative and not focusing on producing a graphics powerhouse, as has been their style for the Wii line, not some sort of impossible dream.
      - ZenoArrow 10y ago
        > "You're confusing me." I imagine the NX device to be a low cost set top box style affair. The 3x power I'm referring to is the total processing power of the NX platform, with the vast majority of that processing power living in the cloud. Does that help clear up the confusion?
        jerf 10y ago
        Yes, thanks. I'd consider it a suicidal move on their part, but that's far from proof that won't be how it works.
    - davb 10y ago
      > With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console. I think you underestimate the woeful state of broadband in many developed nations. Here in the UK, many non-rural areas struggle to get more than 8Mbps down, 1Mbps up. With more devices in the home putting demands on connections and many ISPs capping usage (or offering unlimited but heavily throttled connections), downloading or streaming games isn't always viable. In my own case, I recently moved house and went from an 80Mbps FTTC connection (the fastest available in my city) to 6Mbps. It doesn't take much more than someone at home streaming Netflix while another browses the internet or downloads a 25GB game on the Xbox to make streaming games completely unworkable. I know the situation is very similar in Australia, New Zealand, areas in Spain.. We often see this skewed perception from American companies that everyone in a first-world country has consistent and fast connectivity. A lot of US products and concepts just die here for that reason. The original Xbox One concept of being download-only would have been a complete failure here. It's not just poor people (who "are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console") who struggle for good connectivity.
mathgeek 10y ago
There were still be patches and online services involved. You can also bet that they won't eschew online purchases and digital downloads. I know I won't buy it if I have to go back to physical media.
- davb 10y ago
  Oh absolutely, and that's the way it is with the 3DS. But keep in mind that Nintendo home consoles have always been the favoured split-screen multiplayer - they're the consoles you play when your friends come round (and they work equally well for solo gamers). Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation. On the 3DS, the only forced patches that affect me are OS patches that I'm required to install in order to access the eShop. The mixed physical/digital distribution model for the 3DS is my favourite of all models right now. You can buy a cartridge, requiring no installation or online activation (which you can readily loan or sell later on), or you can download games from the eShop which, once activated, doesn't require any online call home. Ever. You can transfer games between consoles (e.g. during an upgrade) by going online and initiating a license transfer. It's a great balance. My one gripe is region locking. I hope that goes away (and rumours indicate it might). I waited a year for Fire Emblem Fates to come over from Japan and then it hits the US months before we get it in Europe..
  - mathgeek 10y ago
    > Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation. Actually, one of the first Wii U firmware updates bricked a sizable number of consoles that had to be replaced by Nintendo (sizable meaning there were forum threads discussing the issue). My original console went through that process. Haven't had any such issues with the other two consoles this gen, luckily (and yet).
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    If I remember correctly, a major limiting factor of cartridges is the time it takes to get them manufactured. If I remember right only one company was allowed to make those official cartridges, and you had to reserve a specific timeslot 8 months or more in advance, that you couldn't slip that date, in order to get your cartridges made. I can't remember if I read this or if I was told this by veterans of the game industry (I used to work with some guys that have been in the industry for a long time). I think I was told this, but there's probably articles that mention this out there somewhere. Anyway, they said it was a nightmare for scheduling, and sometimes you'd have a game finished but have to sit on it for months because that's the earliest you could get a slot reserved. I think this is still an issue with the 3DS (I think they were complaining about it for DS at the time, why they didn't really want to work on another DS game). Not sure if publishers would be as keen on this nowadays, especially compared to the speed and immediacy of the mobile world. Might make them stay with Microsoft and Sony, yet again.

by davb 10y ago

ZenoArrow 10y ago

I strongly suspect the NX will be based on a game streaming service like OnLive. If you look at most of the rumours with that in mind, they make more sense.

davb 10y ago
I very much doubt it. They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world). Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world)." With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console. Furthermore, Nintendo has said that the NX is not designed to be a replacement for the Wii U, meaning that Nintendo may still plan to sell the Wii U, and therefore would have a product to sell in emerging markets (in addition to their handheld devices). http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/15/nintendo-nx-not-wii-u-3ds-replacement http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/15/nintendo-nx-n... "Following a Nintendo investor briefing, officially translated here, president Satoru Iwata says that although the NX will be "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept," he does not "intend it to become a simple "replacement" for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U."" Carrying on, consider the following points from the GFK Research Group leak: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumored-nintendo-nx-specs-leaked-could-support-4k-streaming-1313462 http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumored-nintendo-nx-spe... "Connect with other Nintendo players around the world via the Nintendo Network" "Gameplay flows between Nintendo NX console and Nintendo NX handheld device" "Supports 4K/60fps video streaming" "Gameplay graphics at 900p/60fps" > "Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model." Nintendo have been slow to develop their online offerings, but they're increasingly working in that direction. Nintendo is also keen to get into the mobile gaming market, which a game-streaming platform would help with: http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-and-dena-announce-a-business-and-capital-alliance/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-and-dena-announce... Furthermore, even if such a move to a streaming, subscription-based service would be innovative for Nintendo, the sort of 'Netflix for gaming' approach is nothing new in the market. Aside from OnLive as mentioned before, Sony are already doing it with PlayStation Now. Nintendo can learn from earlier attempts in the market, they don't have to go in blind. http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/playstation-now-1213666/review http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/playstation-now-1213... Lastly, if you believe some of the rumoured specs (which I personally think are mostly driven by wishful thinking), the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform.
  - jerf 10y ago
    "the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform." You're confusing me. One minute you seem to be discussing streaming from the console, the next streaming to the console. They may coincidentally use the same English word but technically they have nothing to do with each other. Streaming from the console may require a bit of extra oomph, but if you're designing it into the console from scratch you can add some custom hardware for it and it shouldn't increase general-purpose computing requirements. Streaming to the console by no stretch of the imagination requires anything to be 3x more powerful than the PS4; if you added 4K output to its graphics card, a XBox 360 would be plenty powerful enough to stream even 4K to the console. Sending video streams to the hardware decoder does not take a lot of power. Either way you don't need a lot more power for "streaming" either in or out. As for specs, it will be coming out 3 years after the PS4 came out. The PS4/XBone generation is generally considered a bit underpowered compared to what PCs could already do at the time. CPUs haven't been advancing much but GPUs have still be clockin' along in the past 3 years. Being merely 3x more powerful than a PS4 is still Nintendo being conservative and not focusing on producing a graphics powerhouse, as has been their style for the Wii line, not some sort of impossible dream.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      > "You're confusing me." I imagine the NX device to be a low cost set top box style affair. The 3x power I'm referring to is the total processing power of the NX platform, with the vast majority of that processing power living in the cloud. Does that help clear up the confusion?
      - jerf 10y ago
        Yes, thanks. I'd consider it a suicidal move on their part, but that's far from proof that won't be how it works.
  - davb 10y ago
    > With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console. I think you underestimate the woeful state of broadband in many developed nations. Here in the UK, many non-rural areas struggle to get more than 8Mbps down, 1Mbps up. With more devices in the home putting demands on connections and many ISPs capping usage (or offering unlimited but heavily throttled connections), downloading or streaming games isn't always viable. In my own case, I recently moved house and went from an 80Mbps FTTC connection (the fastest available in my city) to 6Mbps. It doesn't take much more than someone at home streaming Netflix while another browses the internet or downloads a 25GB game on the Xbox to make streaming games completely unworkable. I know the situation is very similar in Australia, New Zealand, areas in Spain.. We often see this skewed perception from American companies that everyone in a first-world country has consistent and fast connectivity. A lot of US products and concepts just die here for that reason. The original Xbox One concept of being download-only would have been a complete failure here. It's not just poor people (who "are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console") who struggle for good connectivity.

mathgeek 10y ago

There were still be patches and online services involved. You can also bet that they won't eschew online purchases and digital downloads. I know I won't buy it if I have to go back to physical media.

davb 10y ago
Oh absolutely, and that's the way it is with the 3DS. But keep in mind that Nintendo home consoles have always been the favoured split-screen multiplayer - they're the consoles you play when your friends come round (and they work equally well for solo gamers). Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation. On the 3DS, the only forced patches that affect me are OS patches that I'm required to install in order to access the eShop. The mixed physical/digital distribution model for the 3DS is my favourite of all models right now. You can buy a cartridge, requiring no installation or online activation (which you can readily loan or sell later on), or you can download games from the eShop which, once activated, doesn't require any online call home. Ever. You can transfer games between consoles (e.g. during an upgrade) by going online and initiating a license transfer. It's a great balance. My one gripe is region locking. I hope that goes away (and rumours indicate it might). I waited a year for Fire Emblem Fates to come over from Japan and then it hits the US months before we get it in Europe..
- mathgeek 10y ago
  > Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation. Actually, one of the first Wii U firmware updates bricked a sizable number of consoles that had to be replaced by Nintendo (sizable meaning there were forum threads discussing the issue). My original console went through that process. Haven't had any such issues with the other two consoles this gen, luckily (and yet).
- cableshaft 10y ago
  If I remember correctly, a major limiting factor of cartridges is the time it takes to get them manufactured. If I remember right only one company was allowed to make those official cartridges, and you had to reserve a specific timeslot 8 months or more in advance, that you couldn't slip that date, in order to get your cartridges made. I can't remember if I read this or if I was told this by veterans of the game industry (I used to work with some guys that have been in the industry for a long time). I think I was told this, but there's probably articles that mention this out there somewhere. Anyway, they said it was a nightmare for scheduling, and sometimes you'd have a game finished but have to sit on it for months because that's the earliest you could get a slot reserved. I think this is still an issue with the 3DS (I think they were complaining about it for DS at the time, why they didn't really want to work on another DS game). Not sure if publishers would be as keen on this nowadays, especially compared to the speed and immediacy of the mobile world. Might make them stay with Microsoft and Sony, yet again.