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The rude behavior definitely exists, I can point out a number of examples if you send me your e-mail address (you can look me up, @ScottPJones on GitHub, easily

The rude behavior definitely exists, I can point out a number of examples if you send me your e-mail address (you can look me up, @ScottPJones on GitHub, easily enough). I've seen that that sort of disrespectful behavior tends to spread in the community, unfortunately, when nobody dares call out one person for their comments and actions, because of their position.

chappi42 10y ago
But then - as a bystander - let me mention that I once wondered about your insistent replies in some gh issue. God, can't he stop, I thought, and, wow, they have patience. Fortunately such a situation is rare and I'm very often impressed by the intelligent friendly conversations I see. A lot to learn.
- ScottPJones 10y ago
  Yes, a year ago I'd never worked on any open source project, didn't use GitHub, Google Groups, Twitter, StackOverflow, or any of the other programmer social media sites, and was a total newbie about Julia, using git, and dealing with an open source community. Since I had convinced the other people at the startup where I am working that using Julia would be better for us than a mashup of Python, C, C++14, R or Octave, when I started encountering serious bugs and performance problems in areas that were critical to our development, I did get very insistent, esp. where I had lots of previous experience in the area. Instead of simply complaining about the problems, I submitted issues, wrote documentation, made PRs to fix the issues (in the Scheme parser code, in the core C code, in the C Unicode handling module, esp. to the string handling code in Base, and helped improve the coverage by adding a lot of unit tests). It was a major learning process for me, learning best practices for how to break apart a PR into smaller chunks (even though accepting huge PRs from other developers happens all the time), trying to focus on single issues in a PR, and trying to improve my own communications skills on social media. Between the time I started until early September when v0.4 was released, I'd even reached the point of being the #6 contributor to JuliaLang/julia (#26 all time out of some >400 contributors), so I don't think anybody could possibly accuse me of not having putting my time and effort where my mouth was, as far as fixing problems I encountered. Having gotten the critical issues fixed and into v0.4, so we had a reasonably stable base for our product, I was able to concentrate wholly on our product, and so stopped being so pushy about getting things fixed. ;) I still think there are some real systemic problems that need to be addressed, in how things are done, and hopefully some time will be spent to deal with that at this summer's JuliaCon 2016.
  - ced 10y ago
    You know, I read some of the harsh comments you got from people, and they may have been right to say these things, I don't know. But kudos for taking it in stride and maintaining a positive attitude. Good luck in your projects.
    - ScottPJones 10y ago
      Thanks. I've never had any problems with constructive criticism, no matter how harsh it might seem (often that is where you learn the most). The problem is when people make disrespectful, disparaging, insulting remarks (which is against both the NumFocus & Julia community standards), and nothing is done about it, which has ended up driving away several people already. Hopefully that can be addressed.
  - chappi42 10y ago
    Thank you for this reply, I also wish you luck with your project, joy at the JuliaCon and I'm glad that 0.4 worked :-) Maybe a source of discontent is that startups are using Julia 'for real' and are under pressure to deliver. On the other side Julia is still developing. Core devs work feverishly but some issues just need 'time to brew'. Quiet thinking/coding alone or in small circles. IIRC on a video of Alan Edelman he ~ said that he was involved in HPC for 30 years and to this day they weren't that successful and don't know how to do it. Julia is trying to do it in a completely different way. - Considering 30 years, does it matter if Julia takes 'her' time to be crowned?
davidacoder 10y ago
I followed your interactions with the core devs, at least the public ones. I think the core devs handled the situation with an enormous amount of patience and tact.

chappi42 10y ago

But then - as a bystander - let me mention that I once wondered about your insistent replies in some gh issue. God, can't he stop, I thought, and, wow, they have patience. Fortunately such a situation is rare and I'm very often impressed by the intelligent friendly conversations I see. A lot to learn.

ScottPJones 10y ago
Yes, a year ago I'd never worked on any open source project, didn't use GitHub, Google Groups, Twitter, StackOverflow, or any of the other programmer social media sites, and was a total newbie about Julia, using git, and dealing with an open source community. Since I had convinced the other people at the startup where I am working that using Julia would be better for us than a mashup of Python, C, C++14, R or Octave, when I started encountering serious bugs and performance problems in areas that were critical to our development, I did get very insistent, esp. where I had lots of previous experience in the area. Instead of simply complaining about the problems, I submitted issues, wrote documentation, made PRs to fix the issues (in the Scheme parser code, in the core C code, in the C Unicode handling module, esp. to the string handling code in Base, and helped improve the coverage by adding a lot of unit tests). It was a major learning process for me, learning best practices for how to break apart a PR into smaller chunks (even though accepting huge PRs from other developers happens all the time), trying to focus on single issues in a PR, and trying to improve my own communications skills on social media. Between the time I started until early September when v0.4 was released, I'd even reached the point of being the #6 contributor to JuliaLang/julia (#26 all time out of some >400 contributors), so I don't think anybody could possibly accuse me of not having putting my time and effort where my mouth was, as far as fixing problems I encountered. Having gotten the critical issues fixed and into v0.4, so we had a reasonably stable base for our product, I was able to concentrate wholly on our product, and so stopped being so pushy about getting things fixed. ;) I still think there are some real systemic problems that need to be addressed, in how things are done, and hopefully some time will be spent to deal with that at this summer's JuliaCon 2016.
- ced 10y ago
  You know, I read some of the harsh comments you got from people, and they may have been right to say these things, I don't know. But kudos for taking it in stride and maintaining a positive attitude. Good luck in your projects.
  - ScottPJones 10y ago
    Thanks. I've never had any problems with constructive criticism, no matter how harsh it might seem (often that is where you learn the most). The problem is when people make disrespectful, disparaging, insulting remarks (which is against both the NumFocus & Julia community standards), and nothing is done about it, which has ended up driving away several people already. Hopefully that can be addressed.
- chappi42 10y ago
  Thank you for this reply, I also wish you luck with your project, joy at the JuliaCon and I'm glad that 0.4 worked :-) Maybe a source of discontent is that startups are using Julia 'for real' and are under pressure to deliver. On the other side Julia is still developing. Core devs work feverishly but some issues just need 'time to brew'. Quiet thinking/coding alone or in small circles. IIRC on a video of Alan Edelman he ~ said that he was involved in HPC for 30 years and to this day they weren't that successful and don't know how to do it. Julia is trying to do it in a completely different way. - Considering 30 years, does it matter if Julia takes 'her' time to be crowned?

davidacoder 10y ago

I followed your interactions with the core devs, at least the public ones. I think the core devs handled the situation with an enormous amount of patience and tact.