4 ms·

It could be interesting to take spreadsheets and compile them into functions. You'd get a DSL with an incredibly powerful IDE and interpreter for development b

by DasIch 10y ago

It could be interesting to take spreadsheets and compile them into functions. You'd get a DSL with an incredibly powerful IDE and interpreter for development basically for free.

gherkin0 10y ago
Not to mention one that non-developers already know and are productive in.
Pxtl 10y ago
Good point. There's no reason we couldn't have Excel as a headless DLL and spreadsheets compiled into a nice useful bytecode except that the software itself is a complete trainwreck of legacy issues.
cm2187 10y ago
You have server side excel engines like spreadsheetgear. But my comment was ironic. I am not really suggesting it is a good idea. But I like the idea of converting an Excel logic to a DLL automatically. It's non trivial as Excel allows to do some pretty messy things. As soon as someone uses OFFSET or INDIRECT, all bets are off in term of what the spreadsheet may do.
- DasIch 10y ago
  I don't think it's a bad idea either. You might not be able to reasonably support all features Excel has but you could still provide some value with a subset. I think this could be quite useful not so much when you're starting something from scratch necessarily but maybe you already have spreadsheets that implement some algorithm. In these cases having a compiler translate the spreadsheet would probably make more sense than having a human do it.
- pedasmith 10y ago
  you can also use Excel services architecture: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ms582023.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ms582023.asp...
JBReefer 10y ago
this is how WebWORQ and ReportWORQ operate Disclosure: I worked on both of them
int_19h 10y ago
Not directly related, but Microsoft PowerApps have a very Excel-like feel to them, except you're using formulas to wire up arbitrary controls that you've placed on the canvas, and various tabular or hierarchical data sources, rather than grid cells.
- cm2187 10y ago
  A bit of a duplicate comment that my response to melchebo above: looking at it quickly, it looks like it addresses a different problem. PowerApps seems to be directed at giving business users the ability to quickly create a simple CRUD application / website. But I think the use case where the business logic has to sit in Excel and be owned by the business is where you have a complex logic in Excel, like a tax calculation, or a regulatory formula, or some complex quote for a client, etc. They are problems that are intrinsically complex and that IT can't really productionise by just looking at a couple of formulas, and where having the ability to express the logic in Excel but use it on a server has value.
melchebo 10y ago
Chris Granger (of Light Table fame) and his bunch at Eve are working on something like that. There are a bunch of presentations on YouTube. They are more looking at it abstractly as a possible programming / data model, than purely 'compile an Excel sheet to a programming library'. Eve: https://twitter.com/with_eve https://twitter.com/with_eve Chris Granger: https://twitter.com/ibdknox https://twitter.com/ibdknox
- cm2187 10y ago
  That's interesting but I think it addresses a different problem. It seems to be directed at having a more natural and intuitive way to construct and analyse data. The thing is most business users are already familiar with pivot tables in Excel, for as clunky as they are. But Excel is not only used for data, it is also largely used for a complex business logic. And that's where you have a logic which IT will struggle to understand and therefore should rather not own, and that the business needs to set up and maintain. Think complex tax calculations, or a business plan, or the logic for a quote on a big project, etc. These will be highly non trivial in term of the logic the spreadsheet will follow, and that's where a library that could just reliably swallow a spreadsheet and make it a function IT can use but the business can maintain has a lot of value.
stephengillie 10y ago
If you're in .NET or Powershell, and Excel is installed on the PC, you already have the Excel libraries. Not to mention the amazing ubiquity of functions to convert, import, manipulate, export, and otherwise work with spreadsheets. Or just work with the functions directly.
- cm2187 10y ago
  Are you refering to Excel's COM interface?

by DasIch 10y ago

It could be interesting to take spreadsheets and compile them into functions. You'd get a DSL with an incredibly powerful IDE and interpreter for development basically for free.

gherkin0 10y ago

Not to mention one that non-developers already know and are productive in.

Pxtl 10y ago

Good point. There's no reason we couldn't have Excel as a headless DLL and spreadsheets compiled into a nice useful bytecode except that the software itself is a complete trainwreck of legacy issues.

cm2187 10y ago

You have server side excel engines like spreadsheetgear. But my comment was ironic. I am not really suggesting it is a good idea. But I like the idea of converting an Excel logic to a DLL automatically. It's non trivial as Excel allows to do some pretty messy things. As soon as someone uses OFFSET or INDIRECT, all bets are off in term of what the spreadsheet may do.

DasIch 10y ago
I don't think it's a bad idea either. You might not be able to reasonably support all features Excel has but you could still provide some value with a subset. I think this could be quite useful not so much when you're starting something from scratch necessarily but maybe you already have spreadsheets that implement some algorithm. In these cases having a compiler translate the spreadsheet would probably make more sense than having a human do it.
pedasmith 10y ago
you can also use Excel services architecture: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ms582023.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/ms582023.asp...

JBReefer 10y ago

this is how WebWORQ and ReportWORQ operate Disclosure: I worked on both of them

int_19h 10y ago

Not directly related, but Microsoft PowerApps have a very Excel-like feel to them, except you're using formulas to wire up arbitrary controls that you've placed on the canvas, and various tabular or hierarchical data sources, rather than grid cells.

cm2187 10y ago
A bit of a duplicate comment that my response to melchebo above: looking at it quickly, it looks like it addresses a different problem. PowerApps seems to be directed at giving business users the ability to quickly create a simple CRUD application / website. But I think the use case where the business logic has to sit in Excel and be owned by the business is where you have a complex logic in Excel, like a tax calculation, or a regulatory formula, or some complex quote for a client, etc. They are problems that are intrinsically complex and that IT can't really productionise by just looking at a couple of formulas, and where having the ability to express the logic in Excel but use it on a server has value.

melchebo 10y ago

Chris Granger (of Light Table fame) and his bunch at Eve are working on something like that. There are a bunch of presentations on YouTube. They are more looking at it abstractly as a possible programming / data model, than purely 'compile an Excel sheet to a programming library'. Eve: https://twitter.com/with_eve https://twitter.com/with_eve Chris Granger: https://twitter.com/ibdknox https://twitter.com/ibdknox

cm2187 10y ago
That's interesting but I think it addresses a different problem. It seems to be directed at having a more natural and intuitive way to construct and analyse data. The thing is most business users are already familiar with pivot tables in Excel, for as clunky as they are. But Excel is not only used for data, it is also largely used for a complex business logic. And that's where you have a logic which IT will struggle to understand and therefore should rather not own, and that the business needs to set up and maintain. Think complex tax calculations, or a business plan, or the logic for a quote on a big project, etc. These will be highly non trivial in term of the logic the spreadsheet will follow, and that's where a library that could just reliably swallow a spreadsheet and make it a function IT can use but the business can maintain has a lot of value.

stephengillie 10y ago

If you're in .NET or Powershell, and Excel is installed on the PC, you already have the Excel libraries. Not to mention the amazing ubiquity of functions to convert, import, manipulate, export, and otherwise work with spreadsheets. Or just work with the functions directly.

cm2187 10y ago
Are you refering to Excel's COM interface?