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What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple luc

What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling that got me there, but that’s how learning works. I learnt enough Javascript to get accepted onto the course and I spent another 3 months, with 15 others, Googling things together and creating a new app each week. Now I’m being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. So I can code. I mean, really? This certainly cannot be modus operandi for start-ups can it? Three months of "Javascript Googling" allows someone to brag about: being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. And leveraging that incredibly weak argument into a summary of: So I can code. Wow. If that's all it takes for someone to be hired into a start-up, then the whole "funding is drying up" meme prevalent recently is really making sense. 0 - http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a-scarily-short-space-of-time/ http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a...

onion2k 10y ago
200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.
- dominotw 10y ago
  Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .
  - onion2k 10y ago
    Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes. [1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business completely lacking in diversity.
  - danielhooper 10y ago
    I've taught basic programming skills and concepts to people who are kicking my ass finding jobs too. It's tough.
  - MollyR 10y ago
    Sometimes it's not only skill, but what they think they should pay you. I've seen more skilled candidates avoided because my company didn't want to pay them their worth.
  - katpas 10y ago
    To clarify, I didn't get a role as a dev at the start-up in the post on HN, it was in the investment team. Then after I left I spent 2 weeks solidly trying to hit the course requirements, then 3 months on the coding course. There was also time before that learning syntax on coding academy in my evenings. Since finishing the course (in December 2015) I've been freelancing with some mentorship at Founders & Coders. It's only now that I feel I could apply for a role as junior dev. So really it's been 7 months, and a lot of hours, getting to that standard.
cm3 10y ago
It would be okay if prototypes would be prototypes, but in the software field prototypes are too often taken into production. It's like a designer giving you a small model how they envision it. You don't expect to shrink yourself and live in the model house out of paper. It should be the same with software. Just recall the struggle with Twitter's MVP that failed to be available. Maybe we should differentiate between builders, designers and visionaries in the software field.
- mmartinson 10y ago
  I agree that there is a lot of space for distinction between the kind of work that people are doing in the software field, but I see prototypes being thrown into production as a hugely positive thing, not a problem. Part of the beauty of the current startup landscape is feasibility of throwing a working prototype written by a junior, garbage code and all, into production to see if it gets any traction. It costs little money, offers a chance to hungry juniors to prove themselves and later drives the demand for senior engineers to clean up or rewrite the codebase into something that can scale.
  - cm3 10y ago
    If the org plans for and provides the resources to engineer it properly from scratch, yes, it can be good idea. I've only encountered the scenario where the original developer was only allowed to band-aid patch it repeatedly.

onion2k 10y ago

200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.

dominotw 10y ago
Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .
- onion2k 10y ago
  Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes. [1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business completely lacking in diversity.
- danielhooper 10y ago
  I've taught basic programming skills and concepts to people who are kicking my ass finding jobs too. It's tough.
- MollyR 10y ago
  Sometimes it's not only skill, but what they think they should pay you. I've seen more skilled candidates avoided because my company didn't want to pay them their worth.
- katpas 10y ago
  To clarify, I didn't get a role as a dev at the start-up in the post on HN, it was in the investment team. Then after I left I spent 2 weeks solidly trying to hit the course requirements, then 3 months on the coding course. There was also time before that learning syntax on coding academy in my evenings. Since finishing the course (in December 2015) I've been freelancing with some mentorship at Founders & Coders. It's only now that I feel I could apply for a role as junior dev. So really it's been 7 months, and a lot of hours, getting to that standard.

cm3 10y ago

It would be okay if prototypes would be prototypes, but in the software field prototypes are too often taken into production. It's like a designer giving you a small model how they envision it. You don't expect to shrink yourself and live in the model house out of paper. It should be the same with software. Just recall the struggle with Twitter's MVP that failed to be available. Maybe we should differentiate between builders, designers and visionaries in the software field.

mmartinson 10y ago
I agree that there is a lot of space for distinction between the kind of work that people are doing in the software field, but I see prototypes being thrown into production as a hugely positive thing, not a problem. Part of the beauty of the current startup landscape is feasibility of throwing a working prototype written by a junior, garbage code and all, into production to see if it gets any traction. It costs little money, offers a chance to hungry juniors to prove themselves and later drives the demand for senior engineers to clean up or rewrite the codebase into something that can scale.
- cm3 10y ago
  If the org plans for and provides the resources to engineer it properly from scratch, yes, it can be good idea. I've only encountered the scenario where the original developer was only allowed to band-aid patch it repeatedly.