18 ms·

Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

109 points by elemeno 10y ago

zappo2938 10y ago
"Apply for jobs you’re a bit under qualified for. Most job descriptions describe the perfect candidate. Those features are a wish list not a must have. This applies even more in start-ups where genuine passion for the company gets you a long way." This sound like very good advice.
- bobbles 10y ago
  Yeah exactly, hiring managers have this list in their head, and what they're basically doing is crossing off items that dont apply for each candidate. essentially the ones with the least things crossed out will likely be top of the pile...
  - eksemplar 10y ago
    In my experience it's a weighted list though, and things like having a compatible personality and a personal drive for wanting "this" job, often counts a great deal more than the technical skills on the job description. Unless we're talking contracts of course, then you'll simply want the best technical candidate because you need someone who can deliver good quality on time.
- bitwize 10y ago
  No. In major market cities (SF, Boston, NYC), chances are they're already moving forward with a candidate who does fit the qualifications. Tjey're not hard to fund in those markets.
  - 35bge57dtjku 10y ago
    They are hard enough to find that they are willing to fly in candidates from across the country.
    - bitwize 10y ago
      If you're a unicorn-grade developer (God-tier school, significant time solving Major Problems), maybe. My job search experience has been that it's pretty much "perfect match or gtfo". If I had a nickel for every time I heard "While we were impressed with your qualifications, we decided to go ahead with another candidate with more experience in the tech stack we're using. Best of luck in your job search" I could pay my internet bill at least.
      - pc86 10y ago
        LPT: "More experience in our tech stack" generally means they just didn't like you.
      - 35bge57dtjku 10y ago
        > If you're a unicorn-grade developer (God-tier school, significant time solving Major Problems), maybe. I'm not from a God-tier school, but I've been on teams solving non-trivial problems. And I was flown across the country before I had experience like that. > My job search experience has been that it's pretty much "perfect match or gtfo". I've seen a lot of that, too. Maybe their own nth degree persnicketiness is why they have problems filling positions and are willing to fly people in from far away. I was once flown halfway across the country by a medium-small webdev company just north of the golden gate bridge.
- danielhooper 10y ago
  As a currently unemployed developer I take this advice everyday but it really hasn't generated any results (and it really shouldn't be at my current experience level). I've heard countless times from other developers that they would be happy to hire a competent programmer with no familiarity with their stack because it's better than waiting 6 months to find a dev with the preferred experience. I've never seen or heard about this in practice.
exolymph 10y ago
Chutzpah goes very far. Ask for what you want, and explain why you deserve to get it -- then offer to demonstrate your fitness. It's an excellent approach!
- gresrun 10y ago
  Chutzpah must be followed up with hustle or people will quickly figure out you're just full of hot air.
  - fma 10y ago
    Hire fast. Fire fast.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  I need to work on my chutzpah. I overspecialized in moxie and spunk (the personality trait, that is). Chutzpah's critical though- you're usually not going to get what you want if you never ask for it. You can wait a really long time for people to just give you what you want, especially if you never express an interest by asking for it. It sounds like common sense, but it feels like it took about 20 years too long for that to really sink in with me. I always assumed people understood me a lot more than they actually did.
  - conjectures 10y ago
    Moxie and Spunk sounds like a great hipster brandname.
    - redpanda_ua 10y ago
      "Moxie and Spunk" sounds like a great garage band name.
pmiller2 10y ago
I wonder how to apply this as an engineer. I'm looking around but finding very little that excites me.
- rwallace 10y ago
  Where are you looking? OP's idea of talking to people in coffee shops obviously only works in certain cities. If you're not in such a location, you need to look online.
na85 10y ago
> talk to people around you, they’re surprisingly willing to be involved in what you’re doing if it’s interesting and not too onerous for them. Counters the general assumption that if you talk to strangers they’ll think you’re crazy. Maybe if you're a young woman (as the author is) approaching someone at a coffee shop, then sure. Reverse the genders and watch the interaction take on a dramatically different character.
- slededit 10y ago
  And yet two guys were able to ask everyone in an entire coffee shop what they were working on with a 95% "super friendly" rate. Perhaps some problems are perceived rather than real. https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-on-in-coffee-shops-cdf351e28b6#.sbxwsk5yx https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-on-...
  - HemanHeartYou 10y ago
    yes two charasmatic good looking men in california, see the keywords?
  - MollyR 10y ago
    Also there are some big differences in social norms based on which region of the united states you are in.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    I suspect that in a coffee shop in a good area, it really is this easy, male or female. People are generally pretty social if everyone is on equal footing, not obviously busy, and not creating discomfort. Anyone who's tried to get petitions can attest that doing this on a street corner is a much different beast, but I think hallway testing (or lead finding, or whatever else) is more viable than most people think. I'm also reminded of the study about asking people for their seat on a subway - it's almost impossible to ask, but surprisingly easy to succeed.
    - slededit 10y ago
CameronBanga 10y ago
Few things grind my gears like the idea that a person who cares about products being usable and well designed is inherently a "hipster".
- brashrat 10y ago
  few things grind my gears like hipsters telling me how much THEY care about products being usable LIKE IT'S SOME SORT OF NEW IDEA, like they are the ONLY ONES WHO CARE. beards and winter hats in summer seem, counter intuitively, to incubate a lot of unique little snowflakes.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    If you want to preserve snow through the summer, heavy insulation is key.
- thevibesman 10y ago
  This seems like your baggage not the author's; I'm not sure that she ever said what she meant by hipster. I read it differently.
  - katpas 10y ago
    So my use of the word hipster (and the title of the post) is a reference to this quote which I think is the original source. "At SXSW, Rei Inamoto, the chief creative officer for AKQA, shared a nugget of wisdom that I’ve observed to be true: “To run an efficient team, you only need three people: a Hipster, a Hacker, and a Hustler.” - http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyellwood/2012/08/22/the-dream-team-hipster-hacker-and-hustler/#227c8f2168a8 http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyellwood/2012/08/22/the-dream... It was a colloquial way to get across the point that I couldn't code or design at the point I was looking for a role at a start-up.
thesimpsons1022 10y ago
Tired of entitled white girls giving us advice as if any of it applies to us. No doub the next elizabeth holmes. be a young attractive white girl who went to cambridge and you can get a startup job? okay that helps.
- urda 10y ago
  Reverse the gender and remove "Cambridge" and there would be no front page article.
  - mmartinson 10y ago
    Is that a criticism of the emphasis in the author's writing or the people who use this website?
rdl 10y ago
I LOLed so hard at "The thing was at first I couldn’t find one start-up I wanted to devote the next year or so of my life to building." Hint: startup is more like 7-10y+ unless you're just playing at it, or it fails. If you go into it expecting it to be a year, it probably will be.
- sleepychu 10y ago
  I think the author wanted to work out if startups were a thing they wanted to do.
- uola 10y ago
  I think it's a fair characterization of some sort of minimum commitment as an employee. Especially if you're new to the industry sticking around for 5+ years is going to be a waste of time, rarely will the company match your market value.
  - AdieuToLogic 10y ago
    Keep in mind what was written in the article regarding the author's job at the time was: The job was technically sales ... And: Yesterday was my last day there as I’m now moving on to something new — planning to develop my currently non-existent technical skills full time. So categorizing the author as being new "to the industry" at that point in time (2015/07/30) is nonsensical unless peripheral exposure counts. Not to say this remains the case, mind you, just that the perspective you describe is not applicable to the person the author was at that time. I will add that a person actually in the industry would be wise to "stick around" their first job or two for at least a year. Failing to do so is a red flag for many companies as bouncing around early in the CV is often interpreted as leaving before being fired.
    - uola 10y ago
      Sorry, I have little idea what your point is. She's was/is a recent graduate, she's new to any industry. If you "stick around" long without increase in salary, equity or experience (preferable all fo them) you're doing it wrong. How it can be interpreted only matter for people who hasn't manged to get the right experience to be in demand. In my opinion of course.
AdieuToLogic 10y ago
What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling that got me there, but that’s how learning works. I learnt enough Javascript to get accepted onto the course and I spent another 3 months, with 15 others, Googling things together and creating a new app each week. Now I’m being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. So I can code. I mean, really? This certainly cannot be modus operandi for start-ups can it? Three months of "Javascript Googling" allows someone to brag about: being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. And leveraging that incredibly weak argument into a summary of: So I can code. Wow. If that's all it takes for someone to be hired into a start-up, then the whole "funding is drying up" meme prevalent recently is really making sense. 0 - http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a-scarily-short-space-of-time/ http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a...
- onion2k 10y ago
  200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.
  - dominotw 10y ago
    Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .
    - onion2k 10y ago
      Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes. [1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business completely lacking in diversity.
mizchief2 10y ago
Knowing what you are doing and not being a entitled brat still goes along way in this industry.
w8rbt 10y ago
Great article. It seems that she has an outgoing, friendly personality. Companies need those types of employees just as much as they need good technologists.
dominotw 10y ago
>After some more standard interview prep and a short interview at Crowdcube a few days later accompanied by my newly filled little black book I got taken on for the job. Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I really need to work on my (non existent ) people skills.
- marodox 10y ago
  > Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I just went through my most humiliating whiteboard interview last week. Never knew how bad it could get until that...
  - dominotw 10y ago
    I've come to a realization that no matter how much we complain about it, there is no way around it. No matter how experienced you are you have to face this everytime you change jobs.

109 points by elemeno 10y ago

"Apply for jobs you’re a bit under qualified for. Most job descriptions describe the perfect candidate. Those features are a wish list not a must have. This applies even more in start-ups where genuine passion for the company gets you a long way." This sound like very good advice.

bobbles 10y ago
Yeah exactly, hiring managers have this list in their head, and what they're basically doing is crossing off items that dont apply for each candidate. essentially the ones with the least things crossed out will likely be top of the pile...
- eksemplar 10y ago
  In my experience it's a weighted list though, and things like having a compatible personality and a personal drive for wanting "this" job, often counts a great deal more than the technical skills on the job description. Unless we're talking contracts of course, then you'll simply want the best technical candidate because you need someone who can deliver good quality on time.
bitwize 10y ago
No. In major market cities (SF, Boston, NYC), chances are they're already moving forward with a candidate who does fit the qualifications. Tjey're not hard to fund in those markets.
- 35bge57dtjku 10y ago
  They are hard enough to find that they are willing to fly in candidates from across the country.
  - bitwize 10y ago
    If you're a unicorn-grade developer (God-tier school, significant time solving Major Problems), maybe. My job search experience has been that it's pretty much "perfect match or gtfo". If I had a nickel for every time I heard "While we were impressed with your qualifications, we decided to go ahead with another candidate with more experience in the tech stack we're using. Best of luck in your job search" I could pay my internet bill at least.
    - pc86 10y ago
      LPT: "More experience in our tech stack" generally means they just didn't like you.
    - 35bge57dtjku 10y ago
      > If you're a unicorn-grade developer (God-tier school, significant time solving Major Problems), maybe. I'm not from a God-tier school, but I've been on teams solving non-trivial problems. And I was flown across the country before I had experience like that. > My job search experience has been that it's pretty much "perfect match or gtfo". I've seen a lot of that, too. Maybe their own nth degree persnicketiness is why they have problems filling positions and are willing to fly people in from far away. I was once flown halfway across the country by a medium-small webdev company just north of the golden gate bridge.
danielhooper 10y ago
As a currently unemployed developer I take this advice everyday but it really hasn't generated any results (and it really shouldn't be at my current experience level). I've heard countless times from other developers that they would be happy to hire a competent programmer with no familiarity with their stack because it's better than waiting 6 months to find a dev with the preferred experience. I've never seen or heard about this in practice.

exolymph 10y ago

Chutzpah goes very far. Ask for what you want, and explain why you deserve to get it -- then offer to demonstrate your fitness. It's an excellent approach!

gresrun 10y ago
Chutzpah must be followed up with hustle or people will quickly figure out you're just full of hot air.
- fma 10y ago
  Hire fast. Fire fast.
mwfunk 10y ago
I need to work on my chutzpah. I overspecialized in moxie and spunk (the personality trait, that is). Chutzpah's critical though- you're usually not going to get what you want if you never ask for it. You can wait a really long time for people to just give you what you want, especially if you never express an interest by asking for it. It sounds like common sense, but it feels like it took about 20 years too long for that to really sink in with me. I always assumed people understood me a lot more than they actually did.
- conjectures 10y ago
  Moxie and Spunk sounds like a great hipster brandname.
  - redpanda_ua 10y ago
    "Moxie and Spunk" sounds like a great garage band name.

pmiller2 10y ago

I wonder how to apply this as an engineer. I'm looking around but finding very little that excites me.

rwallace 10y ago
Where are you looking? OP's idea of talking to people in coffee shops obviously only works in certain cities. If you're not in such a location, you need to look online.

na85 10y ago

> talk to people around you, they’re surprisingly willing to be involved in what you’re doing if it’s interesting and not too onerous for them. Counters the general assumption that if you talk to strangers they’ll think you’re crazy. Maybe if you're a young woman (as the author is) approaching someone at a coffee shop, then sure. Reverse the genders and watch the interaction take on a dramatically different character.

slededit 10y ago
And yet two guys were able to ask everyone in an entire coffee shop what they were working on with a 95% "super friendly" rate. Perhaps some problems are perceived rather than real. https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-on-in-coffee-shops-cdf351e28b6#.sbxwsk5yx https://medium.com/life-learning/what-are-people-working-on-...
- HemanHeartYou 10y ago
  yes two charasmatic good looking men in california, see the keywords?
- MollyR 10y ago
  Also there are some big differences in social norms based on which region of the united states you are in.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I suspect that in a coffee shop in a good area, it really is this easy, male or female. People are generally pretty social if everyone is on equal footing, not obviously busy, and not creating discomfort. Anyone who's tried to get petitions can attest that doing this on a street corner is a much different beast, but I think hallway testing (or lead finding, or whatever else) is more viable than most people think. I'm also reminded of the study about asking people for their seat on a subway - it's almost impossible to ask, but surprisingly easy to succeed.
  - slededit 10y ago

CameronBanga 10y ago

Few things grind my gears like the idea that a person who cares about products being usable and well designed is inherently a "hipster".

brashrat 10y ago
few things grind my gears like hipsters telling me how much THEY care about products being usable LIKE IT'S SOME SORT OF NEW IDEA, like they are the ONLY ONES WHO CARE. beards and winter hats in summer seem, counter intuitively, to incubate a lot of unique little snowflakes.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  If you want to preserve snow through the summer, heavy insulation is key.
thevibesman 10y ago
This seems like your baggage not the author's; I'm not sure that she ever said what she meant by hipster. I read it differently.
- katpas 10y ago
  So my use of the word hipster (and the title of the post) is a reference to this quote which I think is the original source. "At SXSW, Rei Inamoto, the chief creative officer for AKQA, shared a nugget of wisdom that I’ve observed to be true: “To run an efficient team, you only need three people: a Hipster, a Hacker, and a Hustler.” - http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyellwood/2012/08/22/the-dream-team-hipster-hacker-and-hustler/#227c8f2168a8 http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyellwood/2012/08/22/the-dream... It was a colloquial way to get across the point that I couldn't code or design at the point I was looking for a role at a start-up.

thesimpsons1022 10y ago

Tired of entitled white girls giving us advice as if any of it applies to us. No doub the next elizabeth holmes. be a young attractive white girl who went to cambridge and you can get a startup job? okay that helps.

urda 10y ago
Reverse the gender and remove "Cambridge" and there would be no front page article.
- mmartinson 10y ago
  Is that a criticism of the emphasis in the author's writing or the people who use this website?

rdl 10y ago

I LOLed so hard at "The thing was at first I couldn’t find one start-up I wanted to devote the next year or so of my life to building." Hint: startup is more like 7-10y+ unless you're just playing at it, or it fails. If you go into it expecting it to be a year, it probably will be.

sleepychu 10y ago
I think the author wanted to work out if startups were a thing they wanted to do.
uola 10y ago
I think it's a fair characterization of some sort of minimum commitment as an employee. Especially if you're new to the industry sticking around for 5+ years is going to be a waste of time, rarely will the company match your market value.
- AdieuToLogic 10y ago
  Keep in mind what was written in the article regarding the author's job at the time was: The job was technically sales ... And: Yesterday was my last day there as I’m now moving on to something new — planning to develop my currently non-existent technical skills full time. So categorizing the author as being new "to the industry" at that point in time (2015/07/30) is nonsensical unless peripheral exposure counts. Not to say this remains the case, mind you, just that the perspective you describe is not applicable to the person the author was at that time. I will add that a person actually in the industry would be wise to "stick around" their first job or two for at least a year. Failing to do so is a red flag for many companies as bouncing around early in the CV is often interpreted as leaving before being fired.
  - uola 10y ago
    Sorry, I have little idea what your point is. She's was/is a recent graduate, she's new to any industry. If you "stick around" long without increase in salary, equity or experience (preferable all fo them) you're doing it wrong. How it can be interpreted only matter for people who hasn't manged to get the right experience to be in demand. In my opinion of course.

AdieuToLogic 10y ago

What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling that got me there, but that’s how learning works. I learnt enough Javascript to get accepted onto the course and I spent another 3 months, with 15 others, Googling things together and creating a new app each week. Now I’m being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. So I can code. I mean, really? This certainly cannot be modus operandi for start-ups can it? Three months of "Javascript Googling" allows someone to brag about: being paid to build early MVP’s (minimum viable products) for start-ups. And leveraging that incredibly weak argument into a summary of: So I can code. Wow. If that's all it takes for someone to be hired into a start-up, then the whole "funding is drying up" meme prevalent recently is really making sense. 0 - http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a-scarily-short-space-of-time/ http://www.gadgette.com/2016/02/19/how-i-learnt-to-code-in-a...

onion2k 10y ago
200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.
- dominotw 10y ago
  Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .
  - onion2k 10y ago
    Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes. [1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business completely lacking in diversity.

mizchief2 10y ago

Knowing what you are doing and not being a entitled brat still goes along way in this industry.

w8rbt 10y ago

Great article. It seems that she has an outgoing, friendly personality. Companies need those types of employees just as much as they need good technologists.

dominotw 10y ago

>After some more standard interview prep and a short interview at Crowdcube a few days later accompanied by my newly filled little black book I got taken on for the job. Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I really need to work on my (non existent ) people skills.

marodox 10y ago
> Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I just went through my most humiliating whiteboard interview last week. Never knew how bad it could get until that...
- dominotw 10y ago
  I've come to a realization that no matter how much we complain about it, there is no way around it. No matter how experienced you are you have to face this everytime you change jobs.