4 ms·

>we have GOT to stop acting like a college degree is the be-all-end-all. We cannot keep protesting against the tremendous student loan debt burden that's creepi

>we have GOT to stop acting like a college degree is the be-all-end-all. We cannot keep protesting against the tremendous student loan debt burden that's creeping ever bigger on the one hand while touting college degrees as being the ONLY way to get a high-paying "respectable" job. It's not "us", it's politicians who service the wealthy that like to lay down those two contradictory pieces of advice ("why did you get a degree if you didn't want debt?" / "why did you not get a degree if you wanted a decent job?").

rayiner 11y ago
Oh c'mon. "Get a college degree" is the mantra of baby boomer parents at all levels. It's not the wealthy elite pushing that message.
SmellTheGlove 11y ago
College isn't the end-all, but the education helps, even if it's not purely technical or vocational. Spending a few years just learning how to think about various problems, discipline to study instead of drink (or if you're me, you didn't do well with this), etc. I do think that we over-emphasize the school itself. What I mean by that, at least in my opinion, is that if it's not an Ivy and not the top school in the field that you are 150% sure you will absolutely do (and won't change majors 3x like I did), then take the reasonably priced state option. Time has flown and I recently realized I'm 12 years out of college. My education was ~10k a year at a public school - a decent one, but not even the best one in the state. I would not be materially farther ahead in life if I'd spent 30k a year at UVA or 50k at Georgetown. And I'm not paying off undergraduate debt right now. I am paying off grad (law school) debt, but that's another story - I was a night student and by the time I graduated it didn't make sense to restart my career in law when I was pretty well along in my industry. And the mistake I made was not going to the cheaper, public state school (and I didn't attend an Ivy). By all means, get your education, but control the costs. To an 18 year old graduating high school it might sound like a no brainer to spend 50k at the "good" private school over the state option, but the reality is, there are few circumstances where that's true. I did it the right way once, and the wrong way once, so just my two cents.
- sageabilly 11y ago
  "I do think that we over-emphasize the school itself." God yes. I remember an article I read earlier this year (can't remember the title or I'd link it) that followed students at Ivies and at State schools and found that (controlling for grades) it was the students' commitment to networking, extracurricular activities, volunteering, internships, etc. that made the most difference to their long-term success. I WISH SOMEONE HAD TAUGHT ME THAT! I graduated 10 years ago and oh my god I wish I had done more to network/intern/volunteer when I was in school.
  - Bartweiss 11y ago
    I'll bet there's an untapped hiring pool that consists of 18 year olds newly admitted to good colleges (or rising sophomores who don't want more debt). They've been admitted, and outside of internships and technical majors the "college advantage" is largely selection bias. Come to think of it, one recruiter at my school did offer bonuses to any student who dropped out to work for him instead of graduating. The department organizer didn't look thrilled.
    - SmellTheGlove 11y ago
      I believe a lot in the value of undergraduate education in general as a time to learn how to think and even just grow up a bit and learn how to live independently and such. Even just exploring and figuring out what on earth you want to be when you grow up (at 34 I still struggle with that). Beyond that, internships really open doors. I think that some kind of post-secondary education is important - just do it reasonably in terms of course of study and cost. Take up a trade if you prefer, that's education as well. But do something to develop yourself - and I don't necessarily think going right into the corporate meat grinder is the best way to start since you'll get such a narrow view of the way to do things right out of the gate. I do wish that we did gap years in the US like some countries do. If my daughter grows up and decides to take a year or two between high school and college, I'd be thrilled. Shit, I'd pay for it if she found something reasonably constructive to do. I'd have been way better off had I delayed my freshman year by 1-2 years - I had a great time, but I didn't go to class much.

rayiner 11y ago

Oh c'mon. "Get a college degree" is the mantra of baby boomer parents at all levels. It's not the wealthy elite pushing that message.

SmellTheGlove 11y ago

College isn't the end-all, but the education helps, even if it's not purely technical or vocational. Spending a few years just learning how to think about various problems, discipline to study instead of drink (or if you're me, you didn't do well with this), etc. I do think that we over-emphasize the school itself. What I mean by that, at least in my opinion, is that if it's not an Ivy and not the top school in the field that you are 150% sure you will absolutely do (and won't change majors 3x like I did), then take the reasonably priced state option. Time has flown and I recently realized I'm 12 years out of college. My education was ~10k a year at a public school - a decent one, but not even the best one in the state. I would not be materially farther ahead in life if I'd spent 30k a year at UVA or 50k at Georgetown. And I'm not paying off undergraduate debt right now. I am paying off grad (law school) debt, but that's another story - I was a night student and by the time I graduated it didn't make sense to restart my career in law when I was pretty well along in my industry. And the mistake I made was not going to the cheaper, public state school (and I didn't attend an Ivy). By all means, get your education, but control the costs. To an 18 year old graduating high school it might sound like a no brainer to spend 50k at the "good" private school over the state option, but the reality is, there are few circumstances where that's true. I did it the right way once, and the wrong way once, so just my two cents.

sageabilly 11y ago
"I do think that we over-emphasize the school itself." God yes. I remember an article I read earlier this year (can't remember the title or I'd link it) that followed students at Ivies and at State schools and found that (controlling for grades) it was the students' commitment to networking, extracurricular activities, volunteering, internships, etc. that made the most difference to their long-term success. I WISH SOMEONE HAD TAUGHT ME THAT! I graduated 10 years ago and oh my god I wish I had done more to network/intern/volunteer when I was in school.
- Bartweiss 11y ago
  I'll bet there's an untapped hiring pool that consists of 18 year olds newly admitted to good colleges (or rising sophomores who don't want more debt). They've been admitted, and outside of internships and technical majors the "college advantage" is largely selection bias. Come to think of it, one recruiter at my school did offer bonuses to any student who dropped out to work for him instead of graduating. The department organizer didn't look thrilled.
  - SmellTheGlove 11y ago
    I believe a lot in the value of undergraduate education in general as a time to learn how to think and even just grow up a bit and learn how to live independently and such. Even just exploring and figuring out what on earth you want to be when you grow up (at 34 I still struggle with that). Beyond that, internships really open doors. I think that some kind of post-secondary education is important - just do it reasonably in terms of course of study and cost. Take up a trade if you prefer, that's education as well. But do something to develop yourself - and I don't necessarily think going right into the corporate meat grinder is the best way to start since you'll get such a narrow view of the way to do things right out of the gate. I do wish that we did gap years in the US like some countries do. If my daughter grows up and decides to take a year or two between high school and college, I'd be thrilled. Shit, I'd pay for it if she found something reasonably constructive to do. I'd have been way better off had I delayed my freshman year by 1-2 years - I had a great time, but I didn't go to class much.