8 ms·

Even though this is a dupe story, I was unable to find a decent answer to the following question in the original comments. I am a recent grad in a non-(CS/physi

by molotok 10y ago

Even though this is a dupe story, I was unable to find a decent answer to the following question in the original comments. I am a recent grad in a non-(CS/physics/math/eng) discipline, where I just got to discover enough coding to get hooked but not enough to actually acquire it as a marketable skill. I have carried enough interest through to take it up as a serious after work hobby and am learning by doing small projects in Python and a few other languages that I am trying out (I was advised Python as a good gateway drug). I would like to work in software development, but am realistically behind hordes of recent CS grads who look incomparably better on paper (and are for the most part better than me skills-wise at this point). As a result I had to take a job in another area, but still have my ambition to be a dev, probably a web dev. My question is this: what course of action would you advise I take to get in? Is this even a sensible goal? I am continuously working on my skills going to meetups/dojos and working on projects alone and with other people, but at what point can I realistically try my luck in the job market, what sort of job could I realistically target and is this even a sensible thing to do with my 20s?

RawData 10y ago
You probably have the skills now to get hired. You're not going to get hired at Google or Facebook or anyplace like that with their insane hiring practices...but there are a ton of other companies that would probably be glad to have you. Just be upfront about your experience, show them projects you've completed, be enthusiastic...find recruiters and start taking phone calls and see!
zafka 10y ago
I think you are on the right path. If you enjoy playing with bits, and do so in your spare time, you will get better. I would guess that about 50% of the folks who took CS did so not out of interest, but because they thought it was the "right" career. You will surely have an edge on those folks. Come up with projects you can build for yourself. Soon you be so good, folks will want to hire you.
- zafka 10y ago
  As a side note, I slid out of my first weekend in college,and ended up first getting an Electrical Journeyman's license at age 31. Then work dried up in FL, and I went back to school and picked up a computer engineering degree at 36. I missed the fast track, but I have had a lot of fun.
jstanley 10y ago
Definitely a sensible thing to do. The best way to go about it is to do cool projects, and release them online. That way you have something to point to to demonstrate your ability. Not all companies will take this as evidence of your ability, but the ones you want to work for will. Good luck!
jcadam 10y ago
If you are young and cheap, you can get hired somewhere regardless of your actual skill level. After you prove yourself and acquire some experience, step up to a better paying gig elsewhere :)
dsr_ 10y ago
Yes, this is a plausible goal. Ten years from now, only the most specialized of employers will care what your degree was in -- they should be looking at the experience you've obtained. Python is an excellent gateway drug. Try contributing to a project written in it. For example, you could start a pelican blog and then extend pelican in some interesting direction. Try some freelance projects for pay, too. Here's a freebie idea: lots of small businesses around you have complicated calculations to make that, right now, they do on paper. A local heating oil delivery company has a formula for when they need to schedule deliveries based on local temperatures, tank size, mostly-predictable seasonal adjustments and individual history. Go and talk to them about how they do this, and offer to write a tool for them that does the calculations. Then extend the basic idea: there are similar requirements for all sorts of service companies. Maybe you want to offer it as a service on the web.
nicoburns 10y ago
Context: Someone who is currently about to graduate from their Maths & Philosophy degree, but got a job as a web developer before their degree. Firstly, you absolutely don't need a CS degree to be a web developer (or similar). There are programming jobs where you do need a CS degree, but web development isn't one of them. What you do need is to be able to build websites/webapps to a high standard. I would suggest picking a technology (perhaps Wordpress (PHP) or Angular.js (JavaScript) would be good picks - simply because there is high demand for developer familiar with these technologies. Or go with Django if you want to stick with Python). You need to understand best practices for the framework you are using, and language level features such as closure and scope. Perhaps start following newsletters like JavaScript Weekly and HTML5 weekly. And blogs such as A List Apart. Finally, apply to companies that are small enough that you can talk to them directly, rather than going through a formal recruitment process. There is high demand for developers, and consequently there are companies out there that are willing to train people up.
sevensor 10y ago
You haven't said what your field is, but keep your eyes open for opportunities to use Python on the job. There may be millions of developers out there, but how many of them can bring their programming skills to bear on your field?
- molotok 10y ago
  My field was languages. I was always good at that, but turns out it's not a hugely practical degree subject. I got exposed to programming doing speech recognition/synthesis.
acomjean 10y ago
I think doing projects and posting on github is good. If you have a undergraduate degree, consider taking graduate courses in the field. I had an undergraduate civil engineering degree. When I decided to change fields in my late 20s I looked into taking computer science classes at night while working, some friends who were history majors did the same. From there I got a coop job, I then went back full time for a masters in computer science. The database, data structures and operating system classes I took in grad school have been really valuable in my career. The only thing about this route is the classes are pricy and you have to apply. This is what I did a pace (Its different, its been over 10 years): http://pace.smartcatalogiq.com/2015-2016/Graduate-Catalog/Schools/Seidenberg/Graduate-Degree-Programs/Graduate-Certificate-Programs/Software-Development-and-Engineering http://pace.smartcatalogiq.com/2015-2016/Graduate-Catalog/Sc... Northeastern is where some friends got certificates, I did my masters: http://www.ccis.northeastern.edu/academics/certificate/ http://www.ccis.northeastern.edu/academics/certificate/ I've taken some online edX classes to keep skills up
jackcosgrove 10y ago
Look at your current job for opportunities to automate things. Step up and do it yourself. That will be "experience" rather than "education" and will impress other employers more.
nepstein 10y ago
If you're finding part-time study too slow, there are a number of non-academic contexts in which you can study code full time. Despite the reputation, there are some web-dev bootcamps that have good placement rates. A few in the US: 1) http://www.fullstackacademy.com/ http://www.fullstackacademy.com/ 2) http://www.hackreactor.com/ http://www.hackreactor.com/ 3) http://flatironschool.com/ http://flatironschool.com/ If you're a woman, there's the deferred tuition (no charge until you have a job) option: http://www.gracehopper.com/ http://www.gracehopper.com/ Or if you're not interested in a bootcamp, but rather a self directed environment surrounded by a community of other developers (and want a free option) there's Recurse Center (https://www.recurse.com/ https://www.recurse.com/)
dmd149 10y ago
I'm not a programmer, nor did I graduate from college (2009) with any technical skills. However, one option you may consider is taking a non-technical job someplace and using your programming skills at your non-technical job to impress the hell out of your boss/company. For example, a few years ago I joined a government human caiptal consulting firm. I basically learned Excel and al ittle VBA to automate some really tedious tasks, and also learned enough to do some interesting analysis. I impressed a few clients with my work and I became an independent consultant making far more money just because I work in a field that doesn't have many "technical" people in it. Being a big fish in a small pond that doesn't expect you to be a big fish could lead to some interesting opportunities. Analytical/technical types in non-analytical/technical fields is a good way to do that.
- gregw134 10y ago
  I don't think most developers realize how much average people can be impressed by a little Excel/VBA magic.
xenihn 10y ago
QA automation is the most realistic job you'll be able to get, either for web or mobile (or even both). It will be up to you to find a place that will allow (and hopefully encourage) you to progress towards a dev position. QA automation is good for entry-level because you're still writing code full-time, but you're competing with way less people. Anything with "QA" or "Test" in the job title is very unappealing to most CS graduates, even when they've been unsuccessfully applying to positions for months after graduation. Entry-level pay for these positions is competitive (I would say no less than 10% comparison to entry-level devs) and you'll be able to choose between part-time/hourly and full-time/salaried, since there are plenty of jobs for both. You will want to know basic Ruby, Python, and Bash going into interviews, as well as how to test JSON endpoints. Interviews for these positions are very, very easy in comparison to dev interviews. I also really suggest looking for a position that integrates you into the dev team(s) you will be working with, as opposed to siloing you off as part of a separate QA team (of which you may be the sole member).
duffdevice 10y ago
I would strongly recommend building up a portfolio of cool side projects and making them publicly available on github. I think more and more tech interviewers are starting to look at candidates' github accounts and taking it seriously. Even better if you can host your side projects somewhere so they can easily check it out.

by molotok 10y ago

RawData 10y ago

You probably have the skills now to get hired. You're not going to get hired at Google or Facebook or anyplace like that with their insane hiring practices...but there are a ton of other companies that would probably be glad to have you. Just be upfront about your experience, show them projects you've completed, be enthusiastic...find recruiters and start taking phone calls and see!

zafka 10y ago

I think you are on the right path. If you enjoy playing with bits, and do so in your spare time, you will get better. I would guess that about 50% of the folks who took CS did so not out of interest, but because they thought it was the "right" career. You will surely have an edge on those folks. Come up with projects you can build for yourself. Soon you be so good, folks will want to hire you.

zafka 10y ago
As a side note, I slid out of my first weekend in college,and ended up first getting an Electrical Journeyman's license at age 31. Then work dried up in FL, and I went back to school and picked up a computer engineering degree at 36. I missed the fast track, but I have had a lot of fun.

jstanley 10y ago

Definitely a sensible thing to do. The best way to go about it is to do cool projects, and release them online. That way you have something to point to to demonstrate your ability. Not all companies will take this as evidence of your ability, but the ones you want to work for will. Good luck!

jcadam 10y ago

If you are young and cheap, you can get hired somewhere regardless of your actual skill level. After you prove yourself and acquire some experience, step up to a better paying gig elsewhere :)

dsr_ 10y ago

Yes, this is a plausible goal. Ten years from now, only the most specialized of employers will care what your degree was in -- they should be looking at the experience you've obtained. Python is an excellent gateway drug. Try contributing to a project written in it. For example, you could start a pelican blog and then extend pelican in some interesting direction. Try some freelance projects for pay, too. Here's a freebie idea: lots of small businesses around you have complicated calculations to make that, right now, they do on paper. A local heating oil delivery company has a formula for when they need to schedule deliveries based on local temperatures, tank size, mostly-predictable seasonal adjustments and individual history. Go and talk to them about how they do this, and offer to write a tool for them that does the calculations. Then extend the basic idea: there are similar requirements for all sorts of service companies. Maybe you want to offer it as a service on the web.

nicoburns 10y ago

Context: Someone who is currently about to graduate from their Maths & Philosophy degree, but got a job as a web developer before their degree. Firstly, you absolutely don't need a CS degree to be a web developer (or similar). There are programming jobs where you do need a CS degree, but web development isn't one of them. What you do need is to be able to build websites/webapps to a high standard. I would suggest picking a technology (perhaps Wordpress (PHP) or Angular.js (JavaScript) would be good picks - simply because there is high demand for developer familiar with these technologies. Or go with Django if you want to stick with Python). You need to understand best practices for the framework you are using, and language level features such as closure and scope. Perhaps start following newsletters like JavaScript Weekly and HTML5 weekly. And blogs such as A List Apart. Finally, apply to companies that are small enough that you can talk to them directly, rather than going through a formal recruitment process. There is high demand for developers, and consequently there are companies out there that are willing to train people up.

sevensor 10y ago

You haven't said what your field is, but keep your eyes open for opportunities to use Python on the job. There may be millions of developers out there, but how many of them can bring their programming skills to bear on your field?

molotok 10y ago
My field was languages. I was always good at that, but turns out it's not a hugely practical degree subject. I got exposed to programming doing speech recognition/synthesis.

acomjean 10y ago

I think doing projects and posting on github is good. If you have a undergraduate degree, consider taking graduate courses in the field. I had an undergraduate civil engineering degree. When I decided to change fields in my late 20s I looked into taking computer science classes at night while working, some friends who were history majors did the same. From there I got a coop job, I then went back full time for a masters in computer science. The database, data structures and operating system classes I took in grad school have been really valuable in my career. The only thing about this route is the classes are pricy and you have to apply. This is what I did a pace (Its different, its been over 10 years): http://pace.smartcatalogiq.com/2015-2016/Graduate-Catalog/Schools/Seidenberg/Graduate-Degree-Programs/Graduate-Certificate-Programs/Software-Development-and-Engineering http://pace.smartcatalogiq.com/2015-2016/Graduate-Catalog/Sc... Northeastern is where some friends got certificates, I did my masters: http://www.ccis.northeastern.edu/academics/certificate/ http://www.ccis.northeastern.edu/academics/certificate/ I've taken some online edX classes to keep skills up

jackcosgrove 10y ago

Look at your current job for opportunities to automate things. Step up and do it yourself. That will be "experience" rather than "education" and will impress other employers more.

nepstein 10y ago

If you're finding part-time study too slow, there are a number of non-academic contexts in which you can study code full time. Despite the reputation, there are some web-dev bootcamps that have good placement rates. A few in the US: 1) http://www.fullstackacademy.com/ http://www.fullstackacademy.com/ 2) http://www.hackreactor.com/ http://www.hackreactor.com/ 3) http://flatironschool.com/ http://flatironschool.com/ If you're a woman, there's the deferred tuition (no charge until you have a job) option: http://www.gracehopper.com/ http://www.gracehopper.com/ Or if you're not interested in a bootcamp, but rather a self directed environment surrounded by a community of other developers (and want a free option) there's Recurse Center (https://www.recurse.com/ https://www.recurse.com/)

dmd149 10y ago

I'm not a programmer, nor did I graduate from college (2009) with any technical skills. However, one option you may consider is taking a non-technical job someplace and using your programming skills at your non-technical job to impress the hell out of your boss/company. For example, a few years ago I joined a government human caiptal consulting firm. I basically learned Excel and al ittle VBA to automate some really tedious tasks, and also learned enough to do some interesting analysis. I impressed a few clients with my work and I became an independent consultant making far more money just because I work in a field that doesn't have many "technical" people in it. Being a big fish in a small pond that doesn't expect you to be a big fish could lead to some interesting opportunities. Analytical/technical types in non-analytical/technical fields is a good way to do that.

gregw134 10y ago
I don't think most developers realize how much average people can be impressed by a little Excel/VBA magic.

xenihn 10y ago

QA automation is the most realistic job you'll be able to get, either for web or mobile (or even both). It will be up to you to find a place that will allow (and hopefully encourage) you to progress towards a dev position. QA automation is good for entry-level because you're still writing code full-time, but you're competing with way less people. Anything with "QA" or "Test" in the job title is very unappealing to most CS graduates, even when they've been unsuccessfully applying to positions for months after graduation. Entry-level pay for these positions is competitive (I would say no less than 10% comparison to entry-level devs) and you'll be able to choose between part-time/hourly and full-time/salaried, since there are plenty of jobs for both. You will want to know basic Ruby, Python, and Bash going into interviews, as well as how to test JSON endpoints. Interviews for these positions are very, very easy in comparison to dev interviews. I also really suggest looking for a position that integrates you into the dev team(s) you will be working with, as opposed to siloing you off as part of a separate QA team (of which you may be the sole member).

duffdevice 10y ago

I would strongly recommend building up a portfolio of cool side projects and making them publicly available on github. I think more and more tech interviewers are starting to look at candidates' github accounts and taking it seriously. Even better if you can host your side projects somewhere so they can easily check it out.