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Like: #italiano #kansas #kickoff Which presumably show racism towards Italians, a hatred of the midwest, and a dislike of football? Or maybe Instagram has an

by adekok 10y ago

Like: #italiano #kansas #kickoff Which presumably show racism towards Italians, a hatred of the midwest, and a dislike of football? Or maybe Instagram has an automated system which correlated hashtags with reported porn. Tags with greater than X% reported porn get banned. If that's true (and we have no reason to think it is or isn't true), then the banned tags come out simply because the #bi, etc. people happen to use those tags more for porn than (presumably) #straight people. I'm wary of waving the racism / sexism / whatism flag. We're not all racist. We're not all sexist.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> Which presumably show racism towards Italians, a hatred of the midwest, and a dislike of football? If that was a consistent pattern, maybe, but I am yet to hear of it. > Or maybe Instagram has an automated system which correlated hashtags with reported porn. > I'm wary of waving the racism / sexism / whatism flag. We're not all racist. We're not all sexist. Maybe it's automated, sure. Maybe it's not directly intended. Doesn't change the outcome. Also, no, everyone is racist and sexist to varying extents, it's not a binary. Humans are imperfect.
- mjolk 10y ago
  >Also, no, everyone is racist and sexist to varying extents, it's not a binary. Humans are imperfect. Not everyone and everything is racist and sexist, stop peddling this histrionic narrative. If it's automated, are you claiming that algorithms are racist or sexist? The outcome isn't shaming a sexual orientation any more than x + 3 = 9 is "six shaming."
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - drdeca 10y ago
    Presumably the claim would be that it contributes to a phenomenon which is considered harmful, and that there is an obligation to have it not do that. Now, I don't know that I agree with that claim (certainly not without reservations at least), but I think that the idea of an algorithm contributing to a harmful phenomenon, and that being bad, is not an obviously wrong idea. I don't think your argument against theirs is a very good one. Something better than your x + 3 = 9 quip would be needed to refute it. I'm saying this as someone who also disagrees with the worldview you are arguing against. /epistemic virtue signaling
    - mjolk 10y ago
      The (management or computer) algorithm is likely designed to cut down on pornography and/or "offensive content"; the correlation of the terms bi, lesbian, or gay as metadata to explicit images is likely to be large on a visual platform. If anything is offensive, it's the quickness to jump to "I'm offended by logical explanations and I refuse to come up with practical solutions." Which is to say, I believe that the claim was infantile and deliberatively obtuse. Obviously it wasn't meant as a slight against sexual identity and if you want things to be better, get to work and stop complaining (which is unlikely to happen because complaining is easy and fixing things is hard). Sometimes a cute riposte or simple response is all that's needed to defuse absurdity. Debating with someone plainly calling everyone racist and sexist isn't likely to bear fruit. I wish we could get to a state in which the professionally offended would stop wasting others' time and encouraging this doublespeak-nonsense game -- there's only so many minutes in the day and we both wasted daylight on this.
etjossem 10y ago
TazeTSchnitzel's right. For all we know, users reported posts from proud #bi, #gay, and #lesbian people because they wanted those people off Instagram, not because there was anything wrong with their content. The result is the same: three very meaningful tags that can't be used.
- ad-hominem 10y ago
  What a heinous loss we all have suffered.

by adekok 10y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

> Which presumably show racism towards Italians, a hatred of the midwest, and a dislike of football? If that was a consistent pattern, maybe, but I am yet to hear of it. > Or maybe Instagram has an automated system which correlated hashtags with reported porn. > I'm wary of waving the racism / sexism / whatism flag. We're not all racist. We're not all sexist. Maybe it's automated, sure. Maybe it's not directly intended. Doesn't change the outcome. Also, no, everyone is racist and sexist to varying extents, it's not a binary. Humans are imperfect.

mjolk 10y ago
>Also, no, everyone is racist and sexist to varying extents, it's not a binary. Humans are imperfect. Not everyone and everything is racist and sexist, stop peddling this histrionic narrative. If it's automated, are you claiming that algorithms are racist or sexist? The outcome isn't shaming a sexual orientation any more than x + 3 = 9 is "six shaming."
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- drdeca 10y ago
  Presumably the claim would be that it contributes to a phenomenon which is considered harmful, and that there is an obligation to have it not do that. Now, I don't know that I agree with that claim (certainly not without reservations at least), but I think that the idea of an algorithm contributing to a harmful phenomenon, and that being bad, is not an obviously wrong idea. I don't think your argument against theirs is a very good one. Something better than your x + 3 = 9 quip would be needed to refute it. I'm saying this as someone who also disagrees with the worldview you are arguing against. /epistemic virtue signaling
  - mjolk 10y ago
    The (management or computer) algorithm is likely designed to cut down on pornography and/or "offensive content"; the correlation of the terms bi, lesbian, or gay as metadata to explicit images is likely to be large on a visual platform. If anything is offensive, it's the quickness to jump to "I'm offended by logical explanations and I refuse to come up with practical solutions." Which is to say, I believe that the claim was infantile and deliberatively obtuse. Obviously it wasn't meant as a slight against sexual identity and if you want things to be better, get to work and stop complaining (which is unlikely to happen because complaining is easy and fixing things is hard). Sometimes a cute riposte or simple response is all that's needed to defuse absurdity. Debating with someone plainly calling everyone racist and sexist isn't likely to bear fruit. I wish we could get to a state in which the professionally offended would stop wasting others' time and encouraging this doublespeak-nonsense game -- there's only so many minutes in the day and we both wasted daylight on this.

etjossem 10y ago

TazeTSchnitzel's right. For all we know, users reported posts from proud #bi, #gay, and #lesbian people because they wanted those people off Instagram, not because there was anything wrong with their content. The result is the same: three very meaningful tags that can't be used.

ad-hominem 10y ago
What a heinous loss we all have suffered.