4 ms·

Some of those websites are intentionally obtuse to use by design, but I'm not so sure 'web brutalism' is inherently associated with being "difficult." HN is cit

Some of those websites are intentionally obtuse to use by design, but I'm not so sure 'web brutalism' is inherently associated with being "difficult." HN is cited as an example: is there anything particularly wrong with HN's interface? Many modern websites nowadays feel over-designed and intimidating. If anything, this new (if you can call it new) brutalist trend potentially could bring about increased usability and a better overall experience.

dmitriz 10y ago
Having line-height: 1.6 on HN would go a long way in terms of readability.
- unsignedqword 10y ago
  Perhaps one or two small changes like changing the line height and a comment de-scope button would be nice for usability. It's important not to go down the slippery slope of adding too much functionality, in my opinion - look at Reddit, for instance. Structurally, very similar to HN, but I'd say it adds a little too much control and detail to the end user. Do I need to know a comment's exact karma rating, the ammount of users online in a subreddit? Does there need to be two different submit buttons? It goes on and on...
- oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
  Apparently (I can't check right now), HN uses 'line-height: normal'. If that's not readable for you, complain to your browser vendor; they can interpret that value however they want. And, in some ways, it's preferable to specifying a fixed value; it can - and should - be optimised for the specific font. I'm not sure whether the spec allows it, but - in theory - your browser could also optimise 'normal' for line-length.
  - dmitriz 10y ago
    Yes, it is set to `normal`. It is reasonably readable but not excessively reasonably ;) I don't think browser vendors are the right people to blame though. Their job is to give the designer enough control and they mostly succeed or sometimes don't (https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/12/css-baseline-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/12/css-baseline-the-go...) But you certainly cannot expect them to come up with optimal default working for every single site out there. So setting proper line-height has to remain the site's responsibility. And something as simple as unitless 1.4-1.6 would improve readability with any "regular" font. Given that HN isn't exactly famous for using fancy fonts, which isn't a bad thing at all. ;)
    - oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
      I agree, but if "line-height: 1.25" (my browser's interpretation of 'normal') is 'wrong' more often than not, browser vendors should fix that.
      - dmitriz 10y ago
        In my browser it looks more like '1.25'. And the worst part -- I can't see it in the dev tools! It shows me 'normal' as computed value and I still don't know what it is! Apparently HN is using table layout and `line-height: normal` is set by UA on any table. This is the first time I can't overwrite it by setting it on `body`. This just breaks anything I know and only leads to frustration.
DanBC 10y ago
People don't read the interface. You sometimes see people complaining about a paywall, and being grateful when they're told about the "web" link.

dmitriz 10y ago

Having line-height: 1.6 on HN would go a long way in terms of readability.

unsignedqword 10y ago
Perhaps one or two small changes like changing the line height and a comment de-scope button would be nice for usability. It's important not to go down the slippery slope of adding too much functionality, in my opinion - look at Reddit, for instance. Structurally, very similar to HN, but I'd say it adds a little too much control and detail to the end user. Do I need to know a comment's exact karma rating, the ammount of users online in a subreddit? Does there need to be two different submit buttons? It goes on and on...
oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
Apparently (I can't check right now), HN uses 'line-height: normal'. If that's not readable for you, complain to your browser vendor; they can interpret that value however they want. And, in some ways, it's preferable to specifying a fixed value; it can - and should - be optimised for the specific font. I'm not sure whether the spec allows it, but - in theory - your browser could also optimise 'normal' for line-length.
- dmitriz 10y ago
  Yes, it is set to `normal`. It is reasonably readable but not excessively reasonably ;) I don't think browser vendors are the right people to blame though. Their job is to give the designer enough control and they mostly succeed or sometimes don't (https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/12/css-baseline-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/12/css-baseline-the-go...) But you certainly cannot expect them to come up with optimal default working for every single site out there. So setting proper line-height has to remain the site's responsibility. And something as simple as unitless 1.4-1.6 would improve readability with any "regular" font. Given that HN isn't exactly famous for using fancy fonts, which isn't a bad thing at all. ;)
  - oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
    I agree, but if "line-height: 1.25" (my browser's interpretation of 'normal') is 'wrong' more often than not, browser vendors should fix that.
    - dmitriz 10y ago
      In my browser it looks more like '1.25'. And the worst part -- I can't see it in the dev tools! It shows me 'normal' as computed value and I still don't know what it is! Apparently HN is using table layout and `line-height: normal` is set by UA on any table. This is the first time I can't overwrite it by setting it on `body`. This just breaks anything I know and only leads to frustration.

DanBC 10y ago

People don't read the interface. You sometimes see people complaining about a paywall, and being grateful when they're told about the "web" link.