6 ms·

This is USA. She's worth multiple billions of dollars. Money talks. She'll buy her way out. Sorry for sounding so cynical. But it's just facts.

FussyZeus 10y ago
That's not cynical at all. Rich people don't go to jail in the US unless they really, REALLY screw up, and even then it's not a guarantee if they have the right friends. Citation: the banking crash in 2008.
- godzillabrennus 10y ago
  Unless you are rich and commit a crime so horrendous you are Jared Fogle it's pretty much guaranteed that the wheels of commerce shall just keep spinning.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    Jared committed a poor person crime. Committing a rich person crime is totally different. Just as Don Blakenship if Massey Energy. $250,000 fine and 12 months in prison for violating workplace safety laws that resulted in the deaths of 29 miners.
- edanm 10y ago
  Just out of curiosity, who specifically should've gone to jail in 2008, and for what?
  - ldehaan 10y ago
    who: Anyone who profited from defrauding the us tax payers. There is a very long list. given the proper time and budget from, say, the department of justice; we'd probably have it. however the doj did nothing twice, and so I doubt they'll be the ones to whom we should entrust such long list making. why: billions of dollars stolen from the world economy to make people who were already wealthy; more wealthy. All at the expense of hundreds of millions who have a lower quality of life because of it. on this you'll just have to trust me or research on your own. There are several movies and documentaries which address it in depth on Netflix/HBO/Amazon.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - saiya-jin 10y ago
      if they broke the law during that time then yes, otherwise no. the last part about "you just have to trust me" is pretty funny - there are several movies and documentaries on Netflix/HBO/Amazon (and youtube!) about how jet fuel can't melt steel beams. or you just have to trust me.
  - FussyZeus 10y ago
    I would argue the bankers who packaged sub-prime mortgages as securities, knowingly stocking bullshit investments in large enough groups where they looked ok, and fudging the numbers to do it in most cases. In my mind there's no difference between that and for example, selling a lemon car and should have a similar outcome.
- saryant 10y ago
  Err, Enron? Both Lay and Skilling were sentenced to years in prison.
  - jazzyk 10y ago
    Counter-example: Jon "I simply do not know where the money is" Corzine. Why this man walks free is beyond me. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/corzine-cftc-duel-over-mf-global-collapse-1450969065 http://www.wsj.com/articles/corzine-cftc-duel-over-mf-global...
MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
Well, the investors funded Theranos likely have (collectively) at least an order of magnitude more wealth than Holmes, so if they decide it's time for the axe to drop, I don't exactly see how she'll be able to 'buy her way out'. Which isn't to say it's likely she'll face criminal charges or anything like that, your cynicism is correct in that regard, but her reputation and finances are very much on the line and her billions (which aren't exactly liquid) won't be able to do much for her on that front.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  She and her investors are family friends. Given that context I find strong and harsh maneuvers unlikely.
  - MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
    Her initial investor, yes, but I don't think they're responsible for Theranos's entire ten billion valuation.
nihonde 10y ago
It's actually worse than that. She'll probably be appointed CEO of Yahoo! or run for elected office on the basis of her business acumen. (Looking at Carly Fiorina.) It's depressing how much wealth and notoriety alone are valid qualifications in America now, regardless of how they've been obtained. It feels like the one true key to success is abject shamelessness after so many years of misplaced incentives.
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  Are you drawing a parallel between Elizabeth Holmes and Marissa Mayer? I don't see any, other than that they are both women business leaders.
  - bwilliams18 10y ago
    Probably referring to Meg Whitman[1] not Marissa Mayer. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Whitman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Whitman
  - nihonde 10y ago
    No, I was referring to Marissa Mayer's imminent successor. ;)
machinshin_ 10y ago
how much money does she ACTUALLY have though? my understanding is that the company was valued at 9 billion, they never actually had that money. And most of what was invested went to the company, not her, right?
Overtonwindow 10y ago
worth billions of dollars..on paper. I think that's critical. My guess is that we will find out many years later, after the company has gone bust, that she was pulling millions of dollars out and stashing it away.
cwilkes 10y ago
That should be in quotes: "worth" billions of imaginary dollars. Until this company goes public or is bought or she's bought out she isn't worth nearly that much. This whole thing looks like a way to scam money off of defense contracts. I doubt if there is any tech in there worth something for a company to buy. At that point any leverage she had with money evaporates.

FussyZeus 10y ago

That's not cynical at all. Rich people don't go to jail in the US unless they really, REALLY screw up, and even then it's not a guarantee if they have the right friends. Citation: the banking crash in 2008.

godzillabrennus 10y ago
Unless you are rich and commit a crime so horrendous you are Jared Fogle it's pretty much guaranteed that the wheels of commerce shall just keep spinning.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  Jared committed a poor person crime. Committing a rich person crime is totally different. Just as Don Blakenship if Massey Energy. $250,000 fine and 12 months in prison for violating workplace safety laws that resulted in the deaths of 29 miners.
edanm 10y ago
Just out of curiosity, who specifically should've gone to jail in 2008, and for what?
- ldehaan 10y ago
  who: Anyone who profited from defrauding the us tax payers. There is a very long list. given the proper time and budget from, say, the department of justice; we'd probably have it. however the doj did nothing twice, and so I doubt they'll be the ones to whom we should entrust such long list making. why: billions of dollars stolen from the world economy to make people who were already wealthy; more wealthy. All at the expense of hundreds of millions who have a lower quality of life because of it. on this you'll just have to trust me or research on your own. There are several movies and documentaries which address it in depth on Netflix/HBO/Amazon.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - saiya-jin 10y ago
    if they broke the law during that time then yes, otherwise no. the last part about "you just have to trust me" is pretty funny - there are several movies and documentaries on Netflix/HBO/Amazon (and youtube!) about how jet fuel can't melt steel beams. or you just have to trust me.
- FussyZeus 10y ago
  I would argue the bankers who packaged sub-prime mortgages as securities, knowingly stocking bullshit investments in large enough groups where they looked ok, and fudging the numbers to do it in most cases. In my mind there's no difference between that and for example, selling a lemon car and should have a similar outcome.
saryant 10y ago
Err, Enron? Both Lay and Skilling were sentenced to years in prison.
- jazzyk 10y ago
  Counter-example: Jon "I simply do not know where the money is" Corzine. Why this man walks free is beyond me. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/corzine-cftc-duel-over-mf-global-collapse-1450969065 http://www.wsj.com/articles/corzine-cftc-duel-over-mf-global...

MaxfordAndSons 10y ago

Well, the investors funded Theranos likely have (collectively) at least an order of magnitude more wealth than Holmes, so if they decide it's time for the axe to drop, I don't exactly see how she'll be able to 'buy her way out'. Which isn't to say it's likely she'll face criminal charges or anything like that, your cynicism is correct in that regard, but her reputation and finances are very much on the line and her billions (which aren't exactly liquid) won't be able to do much for her on that front.

hkmurakami 10y ago
She and her investors are family friends. Given that context I find strong and harsh maneuvers unlikely.
- MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
  Her initial investor, yes, but I don't think they're responsible for Theranos's entire ten billion valuation.

nihonde 10y ago

It's actually worse than that. She'll probably be appointed CEO of Yahoo! or run for elected office on the basis of her business acumen. (Looking at Carly Fiorina.) It's depressing how much wealth and notoriety alone are valid qualifications in America now, regardless of how they've been obtained. It feels like the one true key to success is abject shamelessness after so many years of misplaced incentives.

TorKlingberg 10y ago
Are you drawing a parallel between Elizabeth Holmes and Marissa Mayer? I don't see any, other than that they are both women business leaders.
- bwilliams18 10y ago
  Probably referring to Meg Whitman[1] not Marissa Mayer. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Whitman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Whitman
- nihonde 10y ago
  No, I was referring to Marissa Mayer's imminent successor. ;)

machinshin_ 10y ago

how much money does she ACTUALLY have though? my understanding is that the company was valued at 9 billion, they never actually had that money. And most of what was invested went to the company, not her, right?

Overtonwindow 10y ago

worth billions of dollars..on paper. I think that's critical. My guess is that we will find out many years later, after the company has gone bust, that she was pulling millions of dollars out and stashing it away.

cwilkes 10y ago

That should be in quotes: "worth" billions of imaginary dollars. Until this company goes public or is bought or she's bought out she isn't worth nearly that much. This whole thing looks like a way to scam money off of defense contracts. I doubt if there is any tech in there worth something for a company to buy. At that point any leverage she had with money evaporates.