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tl;dr The way to close the achievement gap between the US and stellar foreign nations (here compared to Finland) is by increasing the number of average and abov

tl;dr The way to close the achievement gap between the US and stellar foreign nations (here compared to Finland) is by increasing the number of average and above teachers. Classroom size, homework, or any other measure is only weakly related to performance. Nothing beats a stellar teacher. Proposed fixes are a probationary period for new teachers and removing the fixed pay scale that dominates the teaching profession.

actionwords 10y ago
daily reminder that public schools almost exclusively cater to a below average target.
gcatalfamo 10y ago
Try to edit the TDLR: to tl;dr for the HN friendly crawlers out there :)
- cassieramen 10y ago
  Thanks! Updated :)
thaumasiotes 10y ago
> Classroom size, homework, or any other measure is only weakly related to performance. Nothing beats a stellar teacher. I think you'll find that the impact of teacher quality on student achievement is dwarfed by the impact of student quality.
- tokenadult 10y ago
  Do you have evidence for this statement? The author of the article submitted here is certainly aware of that claim (he has been researching education reform for many years), but his claim, with evidence shown, is that teacher quality matters more. I think so too, partly because good teaching can change student behaviors toward learning.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    I don't see any claim in the article that teacher quality matters more than student quality. It's about interpreting teacher quality relative to the quality of other teachers as a dollar value. There are two paragraphs, early on, that address or interestingly fail to address student quality. The first fails to address it: > The quality of the teachers in our schools is paramount: no other measured aspect of schools is nearly as important in determining student achievement. The initiatives we have emphasized in policy discussions—class-size reduction, curriculum revamping, reorganization of school schedule, investment in technology—all fall far short of the impact that good teachers can have in the classroom. Moreover, many of these interventions can be very costly. Replacing the students with better students is an easy and effective way to see much larger gains in student achievement. It is not proposed as a policy reform for the obvious reason that it doesn't do anything to help current students; it serves the needs of the school, not the students. (Imagine giving some parents who are trying to get their son to pass calculus the advice "toss out your son and get a better one". This works if "your son" refers to "whoever happens to be the son of this fixed couple, which may vary day-to-day", but not if "your son" itself refers to a fixed person.) The following paragraph reports the range of teacher-to-teacher variation in quality (emphasis added): > Indeed, the magnitude of variation in the quality of teachers, even within each school, is startling. Teachers who work in a given school, and therefore teach students with similar demographic characteristics, can be responsible for increases in math and reading levels that range from a low of one-half year to a high of one and a half years of learning each academic year. That clause I've emphasized is an admission that the impact of student quality is high enough to make measuring the effect of a teacher difficult. Anyway, according to this article, the difference between getting the worst teacher at a school (-0.5 grade levels) and the best (+0.5 grade levels) is one grade level of achievement. Fifth graders differ among themselves by much more than five grade levels of achievement. > his claim, with evidence shown, is that teacher quality matters more [than student quality] What evidence are you referring to? I see several estimates of the size of the impact of teacher quality, and not even a mention of the size of the impact of student quality.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    The chetty paper is a classic. They claim that raising a teacher from -2sigma to 0 adds 1% to a student's earnings. http://www.rajchetty.com/chettyfiles/value_added.pdf http://www.rajchetty.com/chettyfiles/value_added.pdf If you scroll to table 3, you'll see how huge an effect non-teacher quality factors have. Table 5 shows huge specific roles for parent income and minority vs non-minority status. Perhaps a simpler way to think of it: if teacher quality dominated everything else, then a teacher getting poor scores out of a class of poor black kids, relative to another teacher getting great scores out of a class of rich asian kids, would be entirely to blame. Do you really believe this?
Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
Embryo selection would be cheaper and easier.
MaysonL 10y ago
Another fix would be to train teachers better: give them actual training in classroom techniques. See "Building a Better Teacher (NYT)[0] & Teach Like a Champion 2.0 [1] [0]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html... [1]http://smile.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Champion-2-0-Techniques/dp/1118901851 http://smile.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Champion-2-0-Techniques/d...
randyrand 10y ago
Another fix would be to let parents choose who teaches their children. Let the bad teachers wither away.
kaitai 10y ago
Agree with much of first paragraph; will also point out that Finland (for instance) adds in -- time to run around every hour for littler kids -- hearty lunch cooked from scratch at school every day -- social services that ensure your family has health care no matter the parental job situation -- a school social worker and psychologist who will help you and your family. Examples: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-edu... http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/ http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joy...

actionwords 10y ago

daily reminder that public schools almost exclusively cater to a below average target.

gcatalfamo 10y ago

Try to edit the TDLR: to tl;dr for the HN friendly crawlers out there :)

cassieramen 10y ago
Thanks! Updated :)

thaumasiotes 10y ago

> Classroom size, homework, or any other measure is only weakly related to performance. Nothing beats a stellar teacher. I think you'll find that the impact of teacher quality on student achievement is dwarfed by the impact of student quality.

tokenadult 10y ago
Do you have evidence for this statement? The author of the article submitted here is certainly aware of that claim (he has been researching education reform for many years), but his claim, with evidence shown, is that teacher quality matters more. I think so too, partly because good teaching can change student behaviors toward learning.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  I don't see any claim in the article that teacher quality matters more than student quality. It's about interpreting teacher quality relative to the quality of other teachers as a dollar value. There are two paragraphs, early on, that address or interestingly fail to address student quality. The first fails to address it: > The quality of the teachers in our schools is paramount: no other measured aspect of schools is nearly as important in determining student achievement. The initiatives we have emphasized in policy discussions—class-size reduction, curriculum revamping, reorganization of school schedule, investment in technology—all fall far short of the impact that good teachers can have in the classroom. Moreover, many of these interventions can be very costly. Replacing the students with better students is an easy and effective way to see much larger gains in student achievement. It is not proposed as a policy reform for the obvious reason that it doesn't do anything to help current students; it serves the needs of the school, not the students. (Imagine giving some parents who are trying to get their son to pass calculus the advice "toss out your son and get a better one". This works if "your son" refers to "whoever happens to be the son of this fixed couple, which may vary day-to-day", but not if "your son" itself refers to a fixed person.) The following paragraph reports the range of teacher-to-teacher variation in quality (emphasis added): > Indeed, the magnitude of variation in the quality of teachers, even within each school, is startling. Teachers who work in a given school, and therefore teach students with similar demographic characteristics, can be responsible for increases in math and reading levels that range from a low of one-half year to a high of one and a half years of learning each academic year. That clause I've emphasized is an admission that the impact of student quality is high enough to make measuring the effect of a teacher difficult. Anyway, according to this article, the difference between getting the worst teacher at a school (-0.5 grade levels) and the best (+0.5 grade levels) is one grade level of achievement. Fifth graders differ among themselves by much more than five grade levels of achievement. > his claim, with evidence shown, is that teacher quality matters more [than student quality] What evidence are you referring to? I see several estimates of the size of the impact of teacher quality, and not even a mention of the size of the impact of student quality.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  The chetty paper is a classic. They claim that raising a teacher from -2sigma to 0 adds 1% to a student's earnings. http://www.rajchetty.com/chettyfiles/value_added.pdf http://www.rajchetty.com/chettyfiles/value_added.pdf If you scroll to table 3, you'll see how huge an effect non-teacher quality factors have. Table 5 shows huge specific roles for parent income and minority vs non-minority status. Perhaps a simpler way to think of it: if teacher quality dominated everything else, then a teacher getting poor scores out of a class of poor black kids, relative to another teacher getting great scores out of a class of rich asian kids, would be entirely to blame. Do you really believe this?

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago

Embryo selection would be cheaper and easier.

MaysonL 10y ago

Another fix would be to train teachers better: give them actual training in classroom techniques. See "Building a Better Teacher (NYT)[0] & Teach Like a Champion 2.0 [1] [0]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html... [1]http://smile.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Champion-2-0-Techniques/dp/1118901851 http://smile.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Champion-2-0-Techniques/d...

randyrand 10y ago

Another fix would be to let parents choose who teaches their children. Let the bad teachers wither away.

kaitai 10y ago

Agree with much of first paragraph; will also point out that Finland (for instance) adds in -- time to run around every hour for littler kids -- hearty lunch cooked from scratch at school every day -- social services that ensure your family has health care no matter the parental job situation -- a school social worker and psychologist who will help you and your family. Examples: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-edu... http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/ http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joy...