5 ms·

Tesla owner w/ AP here. Honestly it's a design issue. The way that summon was activated(double tap on P) is very possible to slip and do. The screen where you

Tesla owner w/ AP here. Honestly it's a design issue. The way that summon was activated(double tap on P) is very possible to slip and do. The screen where you cancel I've occasionally seen take 1-3s to pop up depending on what the rest of the SoC is doing. I could totally see a scenario where this happened, screen popped up while he was exiting and wasn't able to hear/notice that summon was engaged. The better fix here is to have a CONFIRM on the touchscreen rather than a CANCEL. It wouldn't hinder the experience since you already select forwards/back and catches this accident case. For the record, love the car and almost everything that Tesla does but I really hope they revisit this and design it a bit more defensively.

toddmorey 10y ago
That's a great design fix and I wouldn't be surprised to see them implement it.
makomk 10y ago
The follow-up at http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/11/11658226/tesla-model-s-summon-autopilot-crash-letter http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/11/11658226/tesla-model-s-sum... seems to confirm this, though naturally Tesla are trying to spin this as his fault: "Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded in this incident. The vehicle logs confirm that the automatic Summon feature was initiated by a double-press of the gear selector stalk button, shifting from Drive to Park and requesting Summon activation. The driver was alerted of the Summon activation with an audible chime and a pop-up message on the center touchscreen display. At this time, the driver had the opportunity to cancel the action by pressing CANCEL on the center touchscreen display; however, the CANCEL button was not clicked by the driver. In the next second, the brake pedal was released and two seconds later, the driver exited the vehicle. Three seconds after that, the driver's door was closed, and another three seconds later, Summon activated pursuant to the driver's double-press activation request. Approximately five minutes, sixteen seconds after Summon activated, the vehicle's driver's-side front door was opened again. The vehicle's behavior was the result of the driver's own actions and as you were informed through multiple sources regarding the Summon feature, the driver is always responsible for the safe operation and for maintaining proper control of the vehicle." Basically, they designed an autonomous-operation mode that was easy to activate by accident and incapable of reliably avoiding crashing into things, it appears someone did and his shiny Tesla crashed into a trailer as a result, and they responded by accusing him of intentionally activating the feature and misusing it.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded in this incident. The way cars chime at people, so often, for such bs reasons, it's a wonder anyone would design a UX where it's safety-critical for someone to pay attention to a chime and pop-up. That UX designer needs to have a good talking to, or be fired.
  - sowbug 10y ago
    You might want to take a test-drive in a Tesla before saying that. It's the most respectful, least paternalistic modern car UX I've ever experienced.
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      Heh. In contrast to most GPS systems, my Audi doesn't outright block the ability to enter destinations whilst en route, but instead says "don't do this while driving", and proceeds to let you do it if you so choose.
- Phlarp 10y ago
  Does anyone else find it creepy that Tesla can track every door and button press across their entire fleet in real time? Does Tesla release reports on how often this usage information is requested by law enforcement agencies and or how many requests are complied with?
  - w4 10y ago
    Why is this being down voted? The highly detailed log of the driver's every action is crazy creepy. I get that the data is likely useful for debugging, and may very well be a function of the feature's beta status (can someone confirm? Or is this something that Teslas do all the time?), but it's still insanely creepy that every single action this guy took in his own car was remotely logged and accessible. This guy is basically driving a Telescreen from 1984 to work.
    - 10y ago
Matthias247 10y ago
1-3s? That could really lead to serious problems for such features. Normally such stuff must be guaranteed to be displayed in less than 200ms or something around that. I'm currently wondering if this a safety relevant feature (according to ASIL/ISO26262) and whether it would be even allowed to run such a feature on a component that is not designed for safety related environments which require realtime behavior (a QT UI running on Linux certainly doesn't provide that, and even lots of other automotive software stacks including Autosar give only limited guarantees).
- vvanders 10y ago
  Yeah, I did a bit more testing and I could actually get ~5s if I kicked off a navigation right before summon(I've also seen similar slowdowns on canceled nav). The hazards do flash at the same time but that also happens when you lock the car. You do need to opt-in but I'm hoping they make a change to have it a bit more defensive. In my opinion the right thing to do here is to admit it is possible to accidentally kick off and remedy it(much like with the battery shield).
  - schiffern 10y ago
    >The hazards do flash at the same time but that also happens when you lock the car. When activated from the stalk, the hazards lights don't flash continuously like the key fob or mobile app. They only flash once, because the car immediately and "automagically" selects the forward direction, transitioning away from the flashing state. And the only auditory indication when the driver is still in the car is a single chime. >You do need to opt-in but I'm hoping they make a change to have it a bit more defensive. The Autopark dialog is opt-out not opt-in, unlike other Tesla automatic features which require manual confirmation on the touch screen to activate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JoZL9edlA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JoZL9edlA A single additional press of the park button brings up the Summon dialog, with arrows to move the car forward and backward. The flaw is that forward is the default. You don't have to press it. The default should be "do nothing," making the driver confirm their intent to Autopark.

toddmorey 10y ago

That's a great design fix and I wouldn't be surprised to see them implement it.

makomk 10y ago

The follow-up at http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/11/11658226/tesla-model-s-summon-autopilot-crash-letter http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/11/11658226/tesla-model-s-sum... seems to confirm this, though naturally Tesla are trying to spin this as his fault: "Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded in this incident. The vehicle logs confirm that the automatic Summon feature was initiated by a double-press of the gear selector stalk button, shifting from Drive to Park and requesting Summon activation. The driver was alerted of the Summon activation with an audible chime and a pop-up message on the center touchscreen display. At this time, the driver had the opportunity to cancel the action by pressing CANCEL on the center touchscreen display; however, the CANCEL button was not clicked by the driver. In the next second, the brake pedal was released and two seconds later, the driver exited the vehicle. Three seconds after that, the driver's door was closed, and another three seconds later, Summon activated pursuant to the driver's double-press activation request. Approximately five minutes, sixteen seconds after Summon activated, the vehicle's driver's-side front door was opened again. The vehicle's behavior was the result of the driver's own actions and as you were informed through multiple sources regarding the Summon feature, the driver is always responsible for the safe operation and for maintaining proper control of the vehicle." Basically, they designed an autonomous-operation mode that was easy to activate by accident and incapable of reliably avoiding crashing into things, it appears someone did and his shiny Tesla crashed into a trailer as a result, and they responded by accusing him of intentionally activating the feature and misusing it.

stcredzero 10y ago
Unfortunately, these warnings were not heeded in this incident. The way cars chime at people, so often, for such bs reasons, it's a wonder anyone would design a UX where it's safety-critical for someone to pay attention to a chime and pop-up. That UX designer needs to have a good talking to, or be fired.
- sowbug 10y ago
  You might want to take a test-drive in a Tesla before saying that. It's the most respectful, least paternalistic modern car UX I've ever experienced.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Heh. In contrast to most GPS systems, my Audi doesn't outright block the ability to enter destinations whilst en route, but instead says "don't do this while driving", and proceeds to let you do it if you so choose.
Phlarp 10y ago
Does anyone else find it creepy that Tesla can track every door and button press across their entire fleet in real time? Does Tesla release reports on how often this usage information is requested by law enforcement agencies and or how many requests are complied with?
- w4 10y ago
  Why is this being down voted? The highly detailed log of the driver's every action is crazy creepy. I get that the data is likely useful for debugging, and may very well be a function of the feature's beta status (can someone confirm? Or is this something that Teslas do all the time?), but it's still insanely creepy that every single action this guy took in his own car was remotely logged and accessible. This guy is basically driving a Telescreen from 1984 to work.
  - 10y ago

Matthias247 10y ago

1-3s? That could really lead to serious problems for such features. Normally such stuff must be guaranteed to be displayed in less than 200ms or something around that. I'm currently wondering if this a safety relevant feature (according to ASIL/ISO26262) and whether it would be even allowed to run such a feature on a component that is not designed for safety related environments which require realtime behavior (a QT UI running on Linux certainly doesn't provide that, and even lots of other automotive software stacks including Autosar give only limited guarantees).

vvanders 10y ago
Yeah, I did a bit more testing and I could actually get ~5s if I kicked off a navigation right before summon(I've also seen similar slowdowns on canceled nav). The hazards do flash at the same time but that also happens when you lock the car. You do need to opt-in but I'm hoping they make a change to have it a bit more defensive. In my opinion the right thing to do here is to admit it is possible to accidentally kick off and remedy it(much like with the battery shield).
- schiffern 10y ago
  >The hazards do flash at the same time but that also happens when you lock the car. When activated from the stalk, the hazards lights don't flash continuously like the key fob or mobile app. They only flash once, because the car immediately and "automagically" selects the forward direction, transitioning away from the flashing state. And the only auditory indication when the driver is still in the car is a single chime. >You do need to opt-in but I'm hoping they make a change to have it a bit more defensive. The Autopark dialog is opt-out not opt-in, unlike other Tesla automatic features which require manual confirmation on the touch screen to activate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JoZL9edlA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JoZL9edlA A single additional press of the park button brings up the Summon dialog, with arrows to move the car forward and backward. The flaw is that forward is the default. You don't have to press it. The default should be "do nothing," making the driver confirm their intent to Autopark.