5 ms·

You tell them your real salary? I always gave them a number that was closer to my target range.

by rebelde 10y ago

DanBC 10y ago
That's potentially fraud.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  Not being paid as much as you deserve is actual fraud, though.
- 15155 10y ago
  In what way? Who is harmed? In which jurisdiction?
  - jeff_tyrrill 10y ago
    Your salary involves two parties, and you are only one of them. The other party is your employer. By stating an untrue salary, you're fraudulently claiming that your current or previous employer (usually known to your negotiating counterparty) agreed to pay you the stated amount. It's somewhat like lying about a credential.
    - artmageddon 10y ago
      Why is the business of the new employer to know how much I was making at my previous position? If they would agree to pay me for my skillset alone, that'd be one thing, but otherwise they'll simply use the information from my previous position to give me a de facto raise. Two can play at that game. Also, I could be wrong but I don't think a new employer will contact a previous employer to specifically learn how much a particular individual was earning.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        If it's not their business you should just not tell them, but instead tell them what you're looking for. But don't lie to them, especially if they're going to pay you more because of that lie.
      - jeff_tyrrill 10y ago
        > Why is the business of the new employer to know how much I was making at my previous position? This isn't the question that I answered. It was asked how stating a specific, untrue salary might be fraud. Refusing to answer and giving an untrue number are different. > Also, I could be wrong but I don't think a new employer will contact a previous employer to specifically learn how much a particular individual was earning. Lying doesn't mean you'll get caught. Also, be careful. For example, during a background check for one my jobs (a rather "ordinary" one), they said they couldn't verify one of my previous employers, and asked if I could send them proof. I sent W2s for both years I was employed and my offer letter, which satisfied them. Maybe some would feel that's too remote a risk to worry about, but it's not out of the question.
    - gorbachev 10y ago
      There is no legal obligation for you to be truthful when asked that question. You're not entering into a contract of any kind at that point. The salary negotiation is a completely separate event.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    The recruitee is deceiving someone to gain financial advantage, which is pretty much the definition of fraud. If the potential recruitee said "I'm looking for $X" they're not deceiving anyone.
    - artmageddon 10y ago
      I've been in situations where, despite telling them what I'm looking for, they've pressed me to disclose my salary. I've always been honest about it, but I can recall one specific instance where I disclosed my salary to a recruiter and told them that I was seeking a particular salary, only to be told, "No one is going to give you that big of an increase." Who said anything about an increase? It's about paying what I'm worth. I've seen how a hiring company might look at a person who wants $X, but earns lower-paying figure and think, "Well, market pay is $X, but if the company before was paying them $X-20%, we can get away with offering $X-15% or $X-10% because it's a marginal increase for the applicant and we still save money." evilduck, below: nails it with this[0]: "companies aren't going to tell your their actual upper bounds for what they'll pay in salary, why should you tell them your actual lower bounds? " [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11678634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11678634
      - DanBC 10y ago
        I agree it sucks, and that the candidate is in a bad position. I'm just saying that lying about your previous salary in order to get a higher starting salary is pretty clearly fraud. While it's unlikely to ever be prosecuted it is probably grounds, as has already been said, to withdraw the offer or to fire someone.
- joelg236 10y ago
  Woah woah woah. Why? Who governs that?
- Chris2048 10y ago
  If that counts as fraud, recruiters are in far greater danger...
- jchendy 10y ago
  I don't know about fraud, but if it comes up in the background check, they could definitely rescind your offer.
  - jghn 10y ago
    I know someone who had this happen to them. It's total BS that a potential employer would base their offer on your current salary, but at the same time lying about what you currently make is dangerous
- rebelde 10y ago
  I was new to the industry and the recruiters would get me offers for 3-5k more than my extremely low starting salary. The only way to make it work was to tell them that I was paid better at my job. Then they would give me opportunities in the right range. When speaking with a potential employer, I would always be honest (if asked). That is a different relationship.

You tell them your real salary? I always gave them a number that was closer to my target range.

by rebelde 10y ago

You tell them your real salary? I always gave them a number that was closer to my target range.

DanBC 10y ago

That's potentially fraud.

antisthenes 10y ago
Not being paid as much as you deserve is actual fraud, though.
15155 10y ago
In what way? Who is harmed? In which jurisdiction?
- jeff_tyrrill 10y ago
  Your salary involves two parties, and you are only one of them. The other party is your employer. By stating an untrue salary, you're fraudulently claiming that your current or previous employer (usually known to your negotiating counterparty) agreed to pay you the stated amount. It's somewhat like lying about a credential.
  - artmageddon 10y ago
    Why is the business of the new employer to know how much I was making at my previous position? If they would agree to pay me for my skillset alone, that'd be one thing, but otherwise they'll simply use the information from my previous position to give me a de facto raise. Two can play at that game. Also, I could be wrong but I don't think a new employer will contact a previous employer to specifically learn how much a particular individual was earning.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      If it's not their business you should just not tell them, but instead tell them what you're looking for. But don't lie to them, especially if they're going to pay you more because of that lie.
    - jeff_tyrrill 10y ago
      > Why is the business of the new employer to know how much I was making at my previous position? This isn't the question that I answered. It was asked how stating a specific, untrue salary might be fraud. Refusing to answer and giving an untrue number are different. > Also, I could be wrong but I don't think a new employer will contact a previous employer to specifically learn how much a particular individual was earning. Lying doesn't mean you'll get caught. Also, be careful. For example, during a background check for one my jobs (a rather "ordinary" one), they said they couldn't verify one of my previous employers, and asked if I could send them proof. I sent W2s for both years I was employed and my offer letter, which satisfied them. Maybe some would feel that's too remote a risk to worry about, but it's not out of the question.
  - gorbachev 10y ago
    There is no legal obligation for you to be truthful when asked that question. You're not entering into a contract of any kind at that point. The salary negotiation is a completely separate event.
- DanBC 10y ago
  The recruitee is deceiving someone to gain financial advantage, which is pretty much the definition of fraud. If the potential recruitee said "I'm looking for $X" they're not deceiving anyone.
  - artmageddon 10y ago
    I've been in situations where, despite telling them what I'm looking for, they've pressed me to disclose my salary. I've always been honest about it, but I can recall one specific instance where I disclosed my salary to a recruiter and told them that I was seeking a particular salary, only to be told, "No one is going to give you that big of an increase." Who said anything about an increase? It's about paying what I'm worth. I've seen how a hiring company might look at a person who wants $X, but earns lower-paying figure and think, "Well, market pay is $X, but if the company before was paying them $X-20%, we can get away with offering $X-15% or $X-10% because it's a marginal increase for the applicant and we still save money." evilduck, below: nails it with this[0]: "companies aren't going to tell your their actual upper bounds for what they'll pay in salary, why should you tell them your actual lower bounds? " [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11678634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11678634
    - DanBC 10y ago
      I agree it sucks, and that the candidate is in a bad position. I'm just saying that lying about your previous salary in order to get a higher starting salary is pretty clearly fraud. While it's unlikely to ever be prosecuted it is probably grounds, as has already been said, to withdraw the offer or to fire someone.
joelg236 10y ago
Woah woah woah. Why? Who governs that?
Chris2048 10y ago
If that counts as fraud, recruiters are in far greater danger...
jchendy 10y ago
I don't know about fraud, but if it comes up in the background check, they could definitely rescind your offer.
- jghn 10y ago
  I know someone who had this happen to them. It's total BS that a potential employer would base their offer on your current salary, but at the same time lying about what you currently make is dangerous
rebelde 10y ago
I was new to the industry and the recruiters would get me offers for 3-5k more than my extremely low starting salary. The only way to make it work was to tell them that I was paid better at my job. Then they would give me opportunities in the right range. When speaking with a potential employer, I would always be honest (if asked). That is a different relationship.