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Exactly this. I think the article misunderstands, and/or misinterprets, the Learn To Code "movement". It's not a call to enlist more people as software engine

by superqd 10y ago

Exactly this. I think the article misunderstands, and/or misinterprets, the Learn To Code "movement". It's not a call to enlist more people as software engineers, it's a desire to teach powerful problem solving techniques and tools to everyone.

parennoob 10y ago
> it's a desire to teach powerful problem solving techniques and tools to everyone And like any teaching, that job should be properly paid. What I find irritating is that it almost seems to be a given in the tech industry that people would do this job for free. And the fact that it will create more software engineers on an average leads me to think that all the "Learn to Code" movements are not as altruistic as they may seem. I agree that everyone should learn to code, but similarly why shouldn't everyone learn basic science, economics, or civics? I know a lot of people the US anyway seem to be really behind the curve on these matters, but because it doesn't really benefit large corporate entities, they aren't lining up to teach kids these skills.
- bskap 10y ago
  > similarly why shouldn't everyone learn basic science, economics, or civics We already teach those things to every child in the US. Whether or not they pay attention is something we have less control over. The vast majority of students do not have any opportunity to learn to program.
  - parennoob 10y ago
    > We already teach those things to every child in the US. Exactly, and the teachers are paid for it. You rarely find companies promoting movements offering to teach economics or civics for free. > The vast majority of students do not have any opportunity to learn to program. Then it should be put into the school curriculum, and a qualified person should be paid to teach them, instead of the current expectation which seems to be "programmers will teach these kids coding in their spare time because...everyone should learn to code!".
Kalium 10y ago
I have often seen it pitched as "Software engineers make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to code!". It's not quite an explicit link, but it's often strongly implied.
- gremy0 10y ago
  I don't see why, it would just look silly if it was framed that way for anything else. "Mathematicians make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to count!" "Authors make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to write!" "Cartographers make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to read a map!" "Micheal Phelps got a lot of Olympic gold medals! Everyone should learn to swim!"
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  And all the studies showing software developers or "IT people" make the most money. Individuals can understand nuance, people don't. I'm reminded of that exchange from Men In Black. J (Will Smith) insists that people will understand about aliens, K (Tommy Lee Jones) disagrees: J: "Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it." K: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  To be fair, while the push from some corners of academia and some other places for everyone learning programming/program design is not motivated that way, the push from tech industry capitalist for widening the base of skilled developers is exactly that (and not so that more people can make lots of money, but so that software development labor, due to increased supply, is cheaper). And its pretty much that tech industry capitalist push that has driven the language of "learn to code" rather than "learn to program".

by superqd 10y ago

parennoob 10y ago

> it's a desire to teach powerful problem solving techniques and tools to everyone And like any teaching, that job should be properly paid. What I find irritating is that it almost seems to be a given in the tech industry that people would do this job for free. And the fact that it will create more software engineers on an average leads me to think that all the "Learn to Code" movements are not as altruistic as they may seem. I agree that everyone should learn to code, but similarly why shouldn't everyone learn basic science, economics, or civics? I know a lot of people the US anyway seem to be really behind the curve on these matters, but because it doesn't really benefit large corporate entities, they aren't lining up to teach kids these skills.

bskap 10y ago
> similarly why shouldn't everyone learn basic science, economics, or civics We already teach those things to every child in the US. Whether or not they pay attention is something we have less control over. The vast majority of students do not have any opportunity to learn to program.
- parennoob 10y ago
  > We already teach those things to every child in the US. Exactly, and the teachers are paid for it. You rarely find companies promoting movements offering to teach economics or civics for free. > The vast majority of students do not have any opportunity to learn to program. Then it should be put into the school curriculum, and a qualified person should be paid to teach them, instead of the current expectation which seems to be "programmers will teach these kids coding in their spare time because...everyone should learn to code!".

Kalium 10y ago

I have often seen it pitched as "Software engineers make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to code!". It's not quite an explicit link, but it's often strongly implied.

gremy0 10y ago
I don't see why, it would just look silly if it was framed that way for anything else. "Mathematicians make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to count!" "Authors make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to write!" "Cartographers make a lot of money! Everyone should learn to read a map!" "Micheal Phelps got a lot of Olympic gold medals! Everyone should learn to swim!"
caseysoftware 10y ago
And all the studies showing software developers or "IT people" make the most money. Individuals can understand nuance, people don't. I'm reminded of that exchange from Men In Black. J (Will Smith) insists that people will understand about aliens, K (Tommy Lee Jones) disagrees: J: "Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it." K: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
dragonwriter 10y ago
To be fair, while the push from some corners of academia and some other places for everyone learning programming/program design is not motivated that way, the push from tech industry capitalist for widening the base of skilled developers is exactly that (and not so that more people can make lots of money, but so that software development labor, due to increased supply, is cheaper). And its pretty much that tech industry capitalist push that has driven the language of "learn to code" rather than "learn to program".