4 ms·

Go through the process and let death take you. It's better to help some people than to help no one at all. I don't have the perfect protocol of such a process,

Go through the process and let death take you. It's better to help some people than to help no one at all. I don't have the perfect protocol of such a process, I am just writing an example to prove that my original point is valid. I think people that have Alzheimer's and want to die should be able to be assisted.

emodendroket 10y ago
OK, but you are sidestepping the issue here. As you've said, if you accept active euthanasia you'd probably consider the deterioration of Alzheimer's an acceptable reason. And most people take informed and uncoerced consent as important to the process. And yet how do you ensure that consent with someone who is losing their mental faculties?
- dumbmatter 10y ago
  Encourage people to plan ahead, in the same way that you should have a living will and other legal documents in place before you actually need them.
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    I think most people would have a hard time accepting active euthanasia one the basis of documents prepared in the past, particularly when you consider the significant possibility of duress, forgery, etc.
    - dumbmatter 10y ago
      Forgery - require a notarized document, a video, etc. Tons of documentation, why not. Duress - could apply equally to euthanasia today too, couldn't it? If not, then take whatever magical anti-duress method we use now and apply it to this.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  As someone with experience of a relative with Alzheimer's, it's completely clear in every possible way that informed consent is no longer an option. Alzheimer's creates a mental handicap that makes normal adult functioning impossible. You can literally ask the same question twice in two minutes and get two conflicting answers - with no memory of the previous answer, or even that the question was asked before. In mid-stage Alzheimer's memory is so impaired that it's literally shorter than a spoken sentence. In late Alzheimer's even that disappears. The solution in the UK is to hand over care decisions by Power of Attorney. If no relative is available for that, decisions are handed over to care and medical staff. If assisted death is ever an option in the UK, it would have to be written into a living will while informed consent was still possible. Obviously there are huge legal issues with that, especially if there's an inheritance involved. That aside, people really do get to the point where they just want to die. I've seen it twice now. In one case it was very clear indeed, and had been clear for at least a couple of years. In another it was less clear, but it was something my relative talked about openly. Personally, having seen cancer and Alzheimer's close up, I'm really not convinced I'd want to wait around for a natural death from either.
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    I am sympathetic to that view; I am just really troubled by the idea of people pressuring relatives into euthanasia.

emodendroket 10y ago

OK, but you are sidestepping the issue here. As you've said, if you accept active euthanasia you'd probably consider the deterioration of Alzheimer's an acceptable reason. And most people take informed and uncoerced consent as important to the process. And yet how do you ensure that consent with someone who is losing their mental faculties?

dumbmatter 10y ago
Encourage people to plan ahead, in the same way that you should have a living will and other legal documents in place before you actually need them.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  I think most people would have a hard time accepting active euthanasia one the basis of documents prepared in the past, particularly when you consider the significant possibility of duress, forgery, etc.
  - dumbmatter 10y ago
    Forgery - require a notarized document, a video, etc. Tons of documentation, why not. Duress - could apply equally to euthanasia today too, couldn't it? If not, then take whatever magical anti-duress method we use now and apply it to this.
TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
As someone with experience of a relative with Alzheimer's, it's completely clear in every possible way that informed consent is no longer an option. Alzheimer's creates a mental handicap that makes normal adult functioning impossible. You can literally ask the same question twice in two minutes and get two conflicting answers - with no memory of the previous answer, or even that the question was asked before. In mid-stage Alzheimer's memory is so impaired that it's literally shorter than a spoken sentence. In late Alzheimer's even that disappears. The solution in the UK is to hand over care decisions by Power of Attorney. If no relative is available for that, decisions are handed over to care and medical staff. If assisted death is ever an option in the UK, it would have to be written into a living will while informed consent was still possible. Obviously there are huge legal issues with that, especially if there's an inheritance involved. That aside, people really do get to the point where they just want to die. I've seen it twice now. In one case it was very clear indeed, and had been clear for at least a couple of years. In another it was less clear, but it was something my relative talked about openly. Personally, having seen cancer and Alzheimer's close up, I'm really not convinced I'd want to wait around for a natural death from either.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  I am sympathetic to that view; I am just really troubled by the idea of people pressuring relatives into euthanasia.