6 ms·

I wish universities would take the lead in forcing open the journal monopoly. It would be really great if a major university like Stanford or Harvard said to it

I wish universities would take the lead in forcing open the journal monopoly. It would be really great if a major university like Stanford or Harvard said to its professors: You may publish anywhere, but you must also publish it for free to the academic community. Until a major university or five takes a stand on this, the rest of us must continue to fight.

JW_00000 11y ago
> You may publish anywhere, but you must also publish it for free to the academic community. Is this possible? When publishing in a journal, I think you transfer your copyright to them; thereby preventing you from publishing the article any other way. Although as far as I know many journals allow a "pre-print version" to be published by the authors on their personal website.
- arcanus 11y ago
  > When publishing in a journal, I think you transfer your copyright to them That is correct. I have done this for every publication I've ever put out (O(10)). There may be exceptions but this is certainly the dominant paradigm in the physical sciences. My two cents: this is bigger than any University. It will require a government funding agency (likely, NIH or NSF) to take a stand vis a vi the public availability of research produced by public funding.
  - mnw21cam 11y ago
    Since a few years ago, any EU or UK public funded research (which is most university research) must be published as open-access. It is a requirement of the funding. So this is already happening. However, it will need to be done by a greater proportion of the world to be effective. The only problem is that the method of open access publishing is usually to pay a few grand to the publisher for the privilege.
    - return0 11y ago
      That can be a lot of money. E.g. elsevier charges $5000 / article : http://www.cell.com/rights-sharing-embargoes http://www.cell.com/rights-sharing-embargoes And that is money that should be going to research.
      - semi-extrinsic 11y ago
        I completely agree. I've said it before, pay-for open access (aka. "gold open access") needs to go die in a fire.
      - mandor 11y ago
        The actual rule for European grant (H2020) is "either publish in open-access or put the paper on arxiv or similar archives". We can still publish in non-open access journals provided that we put the paper on an open access repository.
    - xioxox 11y ago
      Are you sure? I think it's only funders like Wellcome that require open access. My UK collaborators (in physical sciences) don't publish in open access journals.
      - genericpseudo 11y ago
        Do they self-archive? That was common practice back when I was an active researcher (early to mid 2000s).
      - mnw21cam 11y ago
        Wellcome has required it for a while. Any papers you plan to use in the Research Excellence Framework for 2020 (for those not acquainted, an exercise every few years where UK universities get to say "look how good we are, we published this many papers, please keep funding us") must be available as open access. It isn't necessary for these papers to have gone the gold open access route (where you pay a *!&^%-ton to the publisher), so you could instead upload the non-published version to a preprint server (which is a lot cheaper).
  - untilHellbanned 11y ago
    Agree completely. The government needs to act. As a professor in molecular biology I would be happy with the banning of publishing in for-profit journals.
    - dnautics 11y ago
      It's not the for profit part that's the problem. It's the closed access part that is. Afaik, AAAS and ACS run science and all the chemistry journals respectively and they're both nonprofits with frustrating paywalls. conversely if a for profit could effectively monetize a 100% open access journal, it would be totally fine.
  - notahacker 11y ago
    The standard acceptable practice, at least in social sciences, is to publish the working paper. It'll be subtly different since it's pre peer-review and if you're an academic publishing your own paper you'll be expected to cite the full journal verson. But for the average person that wants to read the paper but doesn't have access to the journal, the working paper is more than adequate.
  - Fomite 11y ago
    The NIH has already done so, as noted in another comment - there's a brief period under which NIH funded work isn't open access, but then it needs to be available. Additionally, many copyright transfer agreements expressly allow an institutional archival system.
  - genericpseudo 11y ago
    One of the big drivers in the biological sciences has been non-governmental funding mandating OA, notably the Gates and Wellcome Trusts. Everyone in the physical sciences uses arXiv.
- semi-extrinsic 11y ago
  This is already a requirement from several government funding agencies, for instance from NIH: https://publicaccess.nih.gov https://publicaccess.nih.gov This is based on the 2009 Omnibus Appropriations Act (which specifies NIH funded research). What would be nice is if this type of act would be passed for all govt. funding agencies.
- scott_s 11y ago
  In the computer science world, two of the biggest publishers are the ACM and IEEE professional societies. They both allow authors to post a version on their own webpage (http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy, https://www.ieee.org/publications_standards/publications/rights/authorrightsresponsibilities.html https://www.ieee.org/publications_standards/publications/rig...). I think this situation is a result of the fact that conferences, not journals, are where CS academics target their latest work. Since the conferences are organized by the professional societies, the professional societies became the biggest publisher. I think this is a good thing, as the professional societies are non-profit organizations that exist for the benefit of their members, and society in general. I hope that they will eventually make their entire digital libraries open. There are CS journals, but even there the ACM and IEEE are big players.
- jonathankoren 11y ago
  If you transfer copyright at all, you typically only transfer it to the ACM, not Springer. Springer is just a contractor running a website and occasionally printing up phone books of papers that no one reads, and USB drives of PDFs people use for the week of the conference. See http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy
  - scott_s 11y ago
    You're assuming the field of computer science, but Springer has journals for many disciplines.
- EdHominem 11y ago
  There's no such thing as automatic assignment of copyright to a published. However, there are many bad contracts that come with this nonsense. You (as a presumed grad student) are the value in the system. If you give the journals your output don't be surprised that they build walls to protect it - they're useless without you and they know it. They'll allow whatever they have to, and nothing else.
- greglindahl 11y ago
  Note that the Internet Archive Wayback Machine has a pretty good archive of these "personal website" preprints. We're working on making it more easily available, matched up with article DOIs.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
programLyrique 11y ago
Governement research centers, such as Inria (in France), require researchers to publish their article for free (on HAL): http://www.inria.fr/en/news/news-from-inria/inria-champions-.. http://www.inria.fr/en/news/news-from-inria/inria-champions-.... And I think that in this US, governement research must be published as public domain. More generally, the ones who give grants (NSF and so on) could require the research to be published in openaccess as one of the conditions to get the grant.
greeneggs 11y ago
Harvard and the University of California already have done this. I am not sure how widespread it is. "In 2008, Harvard's Faculty of Arts & Sciences voted unanimously to give the University a nonexclusive, irrevocable right to distribute their scholarly articles for any non-commercial purpose. In the years since, the remaining eight Harvard schools voted similar open-access (OA) policies; as of late 2015, three research centers have joined their number." [1] "The University of California is committed to disseminating its research and scholarship as widely as possible. In particular, as a public university system, the University of California is dedicated to making its scholarship available to the people of California. Furthermore, the University of California recognizes the benefits that accrue to its authors as individual scholars and to the scholarly enterprise from such wide dissemination, including greater recognition, more thorough review, consideration, and critique, and a general increase in scientific, scholarly, and critical knowledge. The University of California further recognizes that by such policies, authors of scholarly articles can more easily and collectively reserve rights that might otherwise be signed away, often unnecessarily, in agreements with publishers. To accomplish this, authors take advantage of US copyright law to grant to the University a non-exclusive license (limited to the purpose of making the work openly available) for each scholarly article authored while employed by UC." [2] [1] https://osc.hul.harvard.edu/policies/ https://osc.hul.harvard.edu/policies/ [2] http://osc.universityofcalifornia.edu/open-access-policy/policy-text/presidential/ http://osc.universityofcalifornia.edu/open-access-policy/pol...
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  The quotes you provide establish that Harvard and the UC schools have the right to publish their professors' work for free, but not that they do it.
  - __mbm__ 11y ago
    Open access repos are available for a number of schools. For Harvard, go to https://dash.harvard.edu/ https://dash.harvard.edu/ . For Caltech, you can find all author's work here: http://authors.library.caltech.edu/ http://authors.library.caltech.edu/ . Try googling "<University> open access repository" to see if you can find it. However, I couldn't get online access for the UC system, even though they have a policy and "plan". I suspect that things just take longer at public universities due to bureaucracy. Moreover, none of the university repositories I've found do anything close to a good job of making the articles searchable. For example, even though all of my papers are available through Caltech, google only provides links to arXiv or the actual journal. This is actually the problem: if you can't google it, it may as well not be on the open internet at all.
refurb 11y ago
I would say universities are a main cause of the current situation. When faculty are judge by the number of publications and impact factor (typically highest impact are these journals), they can't be surprised when demand outstrips supply and prices go up.
godzillabrennus 11y ago
Who at a university like Harvard can make that decision? The Dean? I ask so we as a community can help move the needle. What platform would you suggest they publish on?

JW_00000 11y ago

> You may publish anywhere, but you must also publish it for free to the academic community. Is this possible? When publishing in a journal, I think you transfer your copyright to them; thereby preventing you from publishing the article any other way. Although as far as I know many journals allow a "pre-print version" to be published by the authors on their personal website.

arcanus 11y ago
> When publishing in a journal, I think you transfer your copyright to them That is correct. I have done this for every publication I've ever put out (O(10)). There may be exceptions but this is certainly the dominant paradigm in the physical sciences. My two cents: this is bigger than any University. It will require a government funding agency (likely, NIH or NSF) to take a stand vis a vi the public availability of research produced by public funding.
- mnw21cam 11y ago
  Since a few years ago, any EU or UK public funded research (which is most university research) must be published as open-access. It is a requirement of the funding. So this is already happening. However, it will need to be done by a greater proportion of the world to be effective. The only problem is that the method of open access publishing is usually to pay a few grand to the publisher for the privilege.
  - return0 11y ago
    That can be a lot of money. E.g. elsevier charges $5000 / article : http://www.cell.com/rights-sharing-embargoes http://www.cell.com/rights-sharing-embargoes And that is money that should be going to research.
    - semi-extrinsic 11y ago
      I completely agree. I've said it before, pay-for open access (aka. "gold open access") needs to go die in a fire.
    - mandor 11y ago
      The actual rule for European grant (H2020) is "either publish in open-access or put the paper on arxiv or similar archives". We can still publish in non-open access journals provided that we put the paper on an open access repository.
  - xioxox 11y ago
    Are you sure? I think it's only funders like Wellcome that require open access. My UK collaborators (in physical sciences) don't publish in open access journals.
    - genericpseudo 11y ago
      Do they self-archive? That was common practice back when I was an active researcher (early to mid 2000s).
    - mnw21cam 11y ago
      Wellcome has required it for a while. Any papers you plan to use in the Research Excellence Framework for 2020 (for those not acquainted, an exercise every few years where UK universities get to say "look how good we are, we published this many papers, please keep funding us") must be available as open access. It isn't necessary for these papers to have gone the gold open access route (where you pay a *!&^%-ton to the publisher), so you could instead upload the non-published version to a preprint server (which is a lot cheaper).
- untilHellbanned 11y ago
  Agree completely. The government needs to act. As a professor in molecular biology I would be happy with the banning of publishing in for-profit journals.
  - dnautics 11y ago
    It's not the for profit part that's the problem. It's the closed access part that is. Afaik, AAAS and ACS run science and all the chemistry journals respectively and they're both nonprofits with frustrating paywalls. conversely if a for profit could effectively monetize a 100% open access journal, it would be totally fine.
- notahacker 11y ago
  The standard acceptable practice, at least in social sciences, is to publish the working paper. It'll be subtly different since it's pre peer-review and if you're an academic publishing your own paper you'll be expected to cite the full journal verson. But for the average person that wants to read the paper but doesn't have access to the journal, the working paper is more than adequate.
- Fomite 11y ago
  The NIH has already done so, as noted in another comment - there's a brief period under which NIH funded work isn't open access, but then it needs to be available. Additionally, many copyright transfer agreements expressly allow an institutional archival system.
- genericpseudo 11y ago
  One of the big drivers in the biological sciences has been non-governmental funding mandating OA, notably the Gates and Wellcome Trusts. Everyone in the physical sciences uses arXiv.
semi-extrinsic 11y ago
This is already a requirement from several government funding agencies, for instance from NIH: https://publicaccess.nih.gov https://publicaccess.nih.gov This is based on the 2009 Omnibus Appropriations Act (which specifies NIH funded research). What would be nice is if this type of act would be passed for all govt. funding agencies.
scott_s 11y ago
In the computer science world, two of the biggest publishers are the ACM and IEEE professional societies. They both allow authors to post a version on their own webpage (http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy, https://www.ieee.org/publications_standards/publications/rights/authorrightsresponsibilities.html https://www.ieee.org/publications_standards/publications/rig...). I think this situation is a result of the fact that conferences, not journals, are where CS academics target their latest work. Since the conferences are organized by the professional societies, the professional societies became the biggest publisher. I think this is a good thing, as the professional societies are non-profit organizations that exist for the benefit of their members, and society in general. I hope that they will eventually make their entire digital libraries open. There are CS journals, but even there the ACM and IEEE are big players.
jonathankoren 11y ago
If you transfer copyright at all, you typically only transfer it to the ACM, not Springer. Springer is just a contractor running a website and occasionally printing up phone books of papers that no one reads, and USB drives of PDFs people use for the week of the conference. See http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy http://www.acm.org/publications/policies/copyright_policy
- scott_s 11y ago
  You're assuming the field of computer science, but Springer has journals for many disciplines.
EdHominem 11y ago
There's no such thing as automatic assignment of copyright to a published. However, there are many bad contracts that come with this nonsense. You (as a presumed grad student) are the value in the system. If you give the journals your output don't be surprised that they build walls to protect it - they're useless without you and they know it. They'll allow whatever they have to, and nothing else.
greglindahl 11y ago
Note that the Internet Archive Wayback Machine has a pretty good archive of these "personal website" preprints. We're working on making it more easily available, matched up with article DOIs.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

programLyrique 11y ago

Governement research centers, such as Inria (in France), require researchers to publish their article for free (on HAL): http://www.inria.fr/en/news/news-from-inria/inria-champions-.. http://www.inria.fr/en/news/news-from-inria/inria-champions-.... And I think that in this US, governement research must be published as public domain. More generally, the ones who give grants (NSF and so on) could require the research to be published in openaccess as one of the conditions to get the grant.

greeneggs 11y ago

Harvard and the University of California already have done this. I am not sure how widespread it is. "In 2008, Harvard's Faculty of Arts & Sciences voted unanimously to give the University a nonexclusive, irrevocable right to distribute their scholarly articles for any non-commercial purpose. In the years since, the remaining eight Harvard schools voted similar open-access (OA) policies; as of late 2015, three research centers have joined their number." [1] "The University of California is committed to disseminating its research and scholarship as widely as possible. In particular, as a public university system, the University of California is dedicated to making its scholarship available to the people of California. Furthermore, the University of California recognizes the benefits that accrue to its authors as individual scholars and to the scholarly enterprise from such wide dissemination, including greater recognition, more thorough review, consideration, and critique, and a general increase in scientific, scholarly, and critical knowledge. The University of California further recognizes that by such policies, authors of scholarly articles can more easily and collectively reserve rights that might otherwise be signed away, often unnecessarily, in agreements with publishers. To accomplish this, authors take advantage of US copyright law to grant to the University a non-exclusive license (limited to the purpose of making the work openly available) for each scholarly article authored while employed by UC." [2] [1] https://osc.hul.harvard.edu/policies/ https://osc.hul.harvard.edu/policies/ [2] http://osc.universityofcalifornia.edu/open-access-policy/policy-text/presidential/ http://osc.universityofcalifornia.edu/open-access-policy/pol...

thaumasiotes 11y ago
The quotes you provide establish that Harvard and the UC schools have the right to publish their professors' work for free, but not that they do it.
- __mbm__ 11y ago
  Open access repos are available for a number of schools. For Harvard, go to https://dash.harvard.edu/ https://dash.harvard.edu/ . For Caltech, you can find all author's work here: http://authors.library.caltech.edu/ http://authors.library.caltech.edu/ . Try googling "<University> open access repository" to see if you can find it. However, I couldn't get online access for the UC system, even though they have a policy and "plan". I suspect that things just take longer at public universities due to bureaucracy. Moreover, none of the university repositories I've found do anything close to a good job of making the articles searchable. For example, even though all of my papers are available through Caltech, google only provides links to arXiv or the actual journal. This is actually the problem: if you can't google it, it may as well not be on the open internet at all.

refurb 11y ago

I would say universities are a main cause of the current situation. When faculty are judge by the number of publications and impact factor (typically highest impact are these journals), they can't be surprised when demand outstrips supply and prices go up.

godzillabrennus 11y ago

Who at a university like Harvard can make that decision? The Dean? I ask so we as a community can help move the needle. What platform would you suggest they publish on?