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Previous discussion (with input from MS) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11646343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11646343 Aside from the Servi

by tacos 10y ago

Previous discussion (with input from MS) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11646343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11646343 Aside from the ServiceStack dude making an extended sales pitch for his overwrought schlocky toolkit, the most disturbing thing in there is the massive dissonance between the experience of professional programmers and what really appears to be an endless throng of happy hobbyists who are excited to "follow the ride" of this thing through clumsy (but Open--yay!) development. You get the impression that people at Microsoft are being rewarded for the number of issues being raised on GitHub for a not-ready-for-prime-time technology ecosystem--under the guise of "building a community." It's... odd.

spriggan3 10y ago
> the massive dissonance between the experience of professional programmers and what really appears to be an endless throng of chipper hobbyists who are excited to "follow the ride" of this thing through clumsy (but Open, yay!) development. Do you think hobbyists would really waste their time with Linux and Command Line tools when they can just download Visual Studio on Windows ? You seem to misunderstand why asp.net chose to go open source at first place. > You get the impression that people at Microsoft are being rewarded for the number of issues being raised on GitHub for a not-ready-for-prime-time technology ecosystem, in the guise of "building a community." It's... odd. They basically had to rewrite the entire framework + .net to run it on Linux. I'm pretty sure they are working quite hard and not wasting their time on Github social gimmicks to try to deliver the product in time. Why are you so angry against MS ? Because they break stuff? they always did that. Except now it's open source so if you don't like where it is going you can fork it.
- tacos 10y ago
  Look at the way they're approaching Bash on Windows (which was also defended by shanselman in that thread). This is a brain dead, check-off-the-boxes compatibility exercise. Instead they threw some half-baked crap on Github and said "Hey community, let us know what doesn't work!" They pulled the same nonsense with C99 support. I know it's dark and rainy and lonely in your office, but just do the work, m'kay? Instead they got Redis limping on it and so decided to release everything as part of an extended tradeshow demo. But months later they realized that it can't handle files that end in a period -- after the community alerted them. This is an absurd way to approach building a critical compatibility layer. It's a waste of everyone's time. But they're over-excited about community input now. They said they were listening with Windows 8, too -- and now Sinofsky's new career is writing LinkedIn articles all day, pretending he didn't drive a $100 billion ecosystem into the ground for three years. Likewise does the OneDrive team really need a UserVoice site to tell them the thing simply doesn't work? A terabyte an hour of error logs and telemetry isn't enough I guess.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
cmdkeen 10y ago
So "happy hobbyists" is being used by you now rather than "unemployed hobbyists" which you mentioned in the other thread. I've sat through a workshop by Damian and David on ASP that was full of professional programmers from various companies who all seemed quite enthusiastic about the changes at the end of the process. For those of us using MVC 5 at the moment the changes coming in Core are going to make life an awful lot better, and that they have decided to reboot to 1.0 from the old MVC 6 is a fair description for what is happening.
- tacos 10y ago
  Love the changes. Love the technology. Hate the process, and that's the focus of my remarks.

by tacos 10y ago

spriggan3 10y ago

> the massive dissonance between the experience of professional programmers and what really appears to be an endless throng of chipper hobbyists who are excited to "follow the ride" of this thing through clumsy (but Open, yay!) development. Do you think hobbyists would really waste their time with Linux and Command Line tools when they can just download Visual Studio on Windows ? You seem to misunderstand why asp.net chose to go open source at first place. > You get the impression that people at Microsoft are being rewarded for the number of issues being raised on GitHub for a not-ready-for-prime-time technology ecosystem, in the guise of "building a community." It's... odd. They basically had to rewrite the entire framework + .net to run it on Linux. I'm pretty sure they are working quite hard and not wasting their time on Github social gimmicks to try to deliver the product in time. Why are you so angry against MS ? Because they break stuff? they always did that. Except now it's open source so if you don't like where it is going you can fork it.

tacos 10y ago
Look at the way they're approaching Bash on Windows (which was also defended by shanselman in that thread). This is a brain dead, check-off-the-boxes compatibility exercise. Instead they threw some half-baked crap on Github and said "Hey community, let us know what doesn't work!" They pulled the same nonsense with C99 support. I know it's dark and rainy and lonely in your office, but just do the work, m'kay? Instead they got Redis limping on it and so decided to release everything as part of an extended tradeshow demo. But months later they realized that it can't handle files that end in a period -- after the community alerted them. This is an absurd way to approach building a critical compatibility layer. It's a waste of everyone's time. But they're over-excited about community input now. They said they were listening with Windows 8, too -- and now Sinofsky's new career is writing LinkedIn articles all day, pretending he didn't drive a $100 billion ecosystem into the ground for three years. Likewise does the OneDrive team really need a UserVoice site to tell them the thing simply doesn't work? A terabyte an hour of error logs and telemetry isn't enough I guess.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

cmdkeen 10y ago

So "happy hobbyists" is being used by you now rather than "unemployed hobbyists" which you mentioned in the other thread. I've sat through a workshop by Damian and David on ASP that was full of professional programmers from various companies who all seemed quite enthusiastic about the changes at the end of the process. For those of us using MVC 5 at the moment the changes coming in Core are going to make life an awful lot better, and that they have decided to reboot to 1.0 from the old MVC 6 is a fair description for what is happening.

tacos 10y ago
Love the changes. Love the technology. Hate the process, and that's the focus of my remarks.