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We won't live to see any of those things happen except maybe number 3 (although it could be more specific, i.e. which data or index shows the cooling trend and
by guscost 10y ago
We won't live to see any of those things happen except maybe number 3 (although it could be more specific, i.e. which data or index shows the cooling trend and for how long).
And I think you may have missed my point. The hypothetical evidence you listed is mostly "proof of X" and "confirmation of Y" which suggests we disagree about how science works. I'm of the opinion that science does not advance by proving new theories correct, it advances by proving old theories incorrect. A new theory that cannot itself be proven incorrect is not scientific. The empirical evidence you have suggested with number 3 is one possible way to falsify the AGW theory, but it is somewhat vague and might mean waiting for a long time. Additionally, without the AGW theory we have no good reason to expect either warming or cooling in particular, so either one is not what Popper called a "risky prediction".
I get the impression that you want me to go along with political action and engineering projects that I don't agree with. Perhaps you will continue to do so until some as yet unspecified temperature measurement shows a cooling trend for some as yet unspecified period of time, or we are both dead.
From my perspective the theory has not made any risky predictions, and that has to happen before we can speak of confirming it. The situation is fundamentally biased against the activist politics. Not surprisingly, lots of the same activists have been trying to declare Popper "obsolete" for some time. I encourage you to read his essay and consider for yourself:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/popper_falsification.html http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/popper_falsification.htm...
"Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions; that is to say, if, unenlightened by the theory in question, we should have expected an event which was incompatible with the theory — an event which would have refuted the theory."
It is an interesting question though - what risky prediction can be or has been made based on the AGW theory? The "polar ice will disappear by X year" statements are the closest thing I can think of.
- Oletros 10y ago> A new theory that cannot itself be proven incorrect is not scientific. Why do you assume that it can not be proven incorrect?
- guscost 10y agoIs that what you think I'm saying? It may be hard to prove incorrect. There hasn't been much of an effort in my experience. Not the same thing.
- Oletros 10y agoSo, let me try to understand your position. You don´t think that it is incorrect because nobody has tried too hard to prove it incorrect?
- danieltillett 10y agoA lot of effort has been put into trying to rule out AGW. The problem is everyone who has tried seriously has failed to do so. If any of the things I listed were found to be true then the AGW theory would be false.
- danieltillett 10y agoI agree with you that we are unlikely to see any of these things because having looked at the science it is as close to certain as we can be with any observation theory that AGW is true. We may be uncertain of what will actually happen and the scale (this is very scarily give we can’t rule out non-linearities), but it appear very, very unlikely that AGW is false. By the way you are the first person to even make a half-hearted attempt to answer my original question. Do you want to make the “polar ice will disappear by x year” more precise?