5 ms·

Am I the only one unhappy with the trend of moving toward web-wrapper applications? As a developer, I also love the idea of cross-platform, and of more elegant

by lpsz 10y ago

Am I the only one unhappy with the trend of moving toward web-wrapper applications? As a developer, I also love the idea of cross-platform, and of more elegant frameworks, but it pains me to run things that are slower or hog the battery. * JavaScript-heavy Spotify now vs. Spotify a few years ago * Atom vs. something like Sublime Text * Or, Slack that takes the cake especially if you log in to multiple Slacks. It's cool for developers. It's not cool for the users.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
You're not the only one. I'm very unhappy with this trend myself. Just when you thought people can't invent any new ways of slowing present machines down to a crawl, this happens.
- damptowel 10y ago
  I used to think faster computers meant faster programs...
  - Aldo_MX 10y ago
    well, the programs are faster to develop
marknutter 10y ago
> Am I the only one unhappy with the trend of moving toward web-wrapper applications? No, you're not. In fact, every time any link shows up on the Hacker News front page that has to do with using HTML/JS/CSS to build native applications the comments on it are usually dominated by people who are "unhappy with the trend toward web-wrapper applications". > It's cool for developers. It's not cool for the users. Here's the thing, if it's not cool for developers, then it might not even get built, and that's really not cool for the users. So if I had to choose between less performant code but more software options for users and more performant code but some software people really want or need not being developed, I'd choose the former.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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oceanswave 10y ago
Here's the thing: What's the #1 application that people use today on their desktops? Browsers. There's a really high chance that you had another browser process open that was dedicated to writing your comment. Mobile included as the HA app is a Cordova-based solution. But you feel compelled to say that thing that you used to accomplish your reading and commenting task was somehow slower and hogged your battery. It got the job done didn't it? Further, what's the #1 tech that some really smart people are focused on optimizing because of its usage. Yeah, again, the browser. Show me another standards-based general UI stack that has had as much man hours dedicated to optimization... AWT/Swing/JavaFX? laugh. WPF, also really slow. WinForms? Not a lot of dev going on there at the moment.
- rhodysurf 10y ago
  Qt 5 and QML. GTK on Linux...
  - seanclayton 10y ago
    >Qt 5 and QML. GTK on Linux... List one that is MIT licensed...
    - cpburns2009 10y ago
      Qt 5 is LGPL 2.1+ (not a problem unless you need to statically link). GTK+ is LGPL 2.1 (not a problem unless you need to statically link).
      - mwcampbell 10y ago
        And wxWidgets is LGPL with an exception for static linking.
- robenkleene 10y ago
  An internet comment is a great example of a use case the browser is good for because it's low effort, low in specialized skills, and disposable. Now we're talking about writing applications with web technologies for high specialized skill and high effort tasks, e.g., code editors, photoshop clones, etc... Which is what a lot of us are skeptical of. These "professional" applications are designed to reward a huge investment in muscle memory, if you are putting so much effort into learning an application, you don't want the return on that investment to be stunted by limitations in the technology the tool is built with.
terda12 10y ago
Slack and Spotify are two examples of apps that have gotten worse and worse. Slack is CPU heavy as hell. Spotify is laggy and feels like a website rather than a native app.
lawnchair_larry 10y ago
It feels like the inmates are running the asylum to me.
Mister_Snuggles 10y ago
It disappoints me as well. Electron apps don't appear to play nice with the underlying API. Take Spotify and Slack, for example. It makes sense that it should expose its API via AppleScript (on Mac), COM (on Windows), and DBUS (on Linux). These let you do neat things like, for example, use a PowerShell (or bash or AppleScript) script to update your Slack status to the name of the track that's playing. Whether you'd WANT that specific functionality or not is beside the point, the fact that the functionality exists means that people will do cool things with it. More importantly, it means that people will do things the developer never thought of.
- jszymborski 10y ago
  Except, the underlying backend of an electron app is a local node.js server. It's not only easy to open up a local API for an Electron app, it's platform independent.
  - Mister_Snuggles 10y ago
    Platform independence is nice, but generally that means it plays poorly on every platform. Looking at Atom's API docs, for example, tells me that there's a very rich API that doesn't appear to be exposed in any way that's native to the underlying platform.

by lpsz 10y ago

TeMPOraL 10y ago

You're not the only one. I'm very unhappy with this trend myself. Just when you thought people can't invent any new ways of slowing present machines down to a crawl, this happens.

damptowel 10y ago
I used to think faster computers meant faster programs...
- Aldo_MX 10y ago
  well, the programs are faster to develop

marknutter 10y ago

> Am I the only one unhappy with the trend of moving toward web-wrapper applications? No, you're not. In fact, every time any link shows up on the Hacker News front page that has to do with using HTML/JS/CSS to build native applications the comments on it are usually dominated by people who are "unhappy with the trend toward web-wrapper applications". > It's cool for developers. It's not cool for the users. Here's the thing, if it's not cool for developers, then it might not even get built, and that's really not cool for the users. So if I had to choose between less performant code but more software options for users and more performant code but some software people really want or need not being developed, I'd choose the former.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

oceanswave 10y ago

Here's the thing: What's the #1 application that people use today on their desktops? Browsers. There's a really high chance that you had another browser process open that was dedicated to writing your comment. Mobile included as the HA app is a Cordova-based solution. But you feel compelled to say that thing that you used to accomplish your reading and commenting task was somehow slower and hogged your battery. It got the job done didn't it? Further, what's the #1 tech that some really smart people are focused on optimizing because of its usage. Yeah, again, the browser. Show me another standards-based general UI stack that has had as much man hours dedicated to optimization... AWT/Swing/JavaFX? laugh. WPF, also really slow. WinForms? Not a lot of dev going on there at the moment.

rhodysurf 10y ago
Qt 5 and QML. GTK on Linux...
- seanclayton 10y ago
  >Qt 5 and QML. GTK on Linux... List one that is MIT licensed...
  - cpburns2009 10y ago
    Qt 5 is LGPL 2.1+ (not a problem unless you need to statically link). GTK+ is LGPL 2.1 (not a problem unless you need to statically link).
    - mwcampbell 10y ago
      And wxWidgets is LGPL with an exception for static linking.
robenkleene 10y ago
An internet comment is a great example of a use case the browser is good for because it's low effort, low in specialized skills, and disposable. Now we're talking about writing applications with web technologies for high specialized skill and high effort tasks, e.g., code editors, photoshop clones, etc... Which is what a lot of us are skeptical of. These "professional" applications are designed to reward a huge investment in muscle memory, if you are putting so much effort into learning an application, you don't want the return on that investment to be stunted by limitations in the technology the tool is built with.

terda12 10y ago

Slack and Spotify are two examples of apps that have gotten worse and worse. Slack is CPU heavy as hell. Spotify is laggy and feels like a website rather than a native app.

lawnchair_larry 10y ago

It feels like the inmates are running the asylum to me.

Mister_Snuggles 10y ago

It disappoints me as well. Electron apps don't appear to play nice with the underlying API. Take Spotify and Slack, for example. It makes sense that it should expose its API via AppleScript (on Mac), COM (on Windows), and DBUS (on Linux). These let you do neat things like, for example, use a PowerShell (or bash or AppleScript) script to update your Slack status to the name of the track that's playing. Whether you'd WANT that specific functionality or not is beside the point, the fact that the functionality exists means that people will do cool things with it. More importantly, it means that people will do things the developer never thought of.

jszymborski 10y ago
Except, the underlying backend of an electron app is a local node.js server. It's not only easy to open up a local API for an Electron app, it's platform independent.
- Mister_Snuggles 10y ago
  Platform independence is nice, but generally that means it plays poorly on every platform. Looking at Atom's API docs, for example, tells me that there's a very rich API that doesn't appear to be exposed in any way that's native to the underlying platform.