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It's wrong because that tends to persuade developers that there is one tool for every situation. If you build something functional fast with your favorite tool

It's wrong because that tends to persuade developers that there is one tool for every situation. If you build something functional fast with your favorite tool (not suited for the job), then you will probably spend many months maintaining/hacking your codebase to keep it functional and well designed.

usaphp 10y ago
It's still better than spending many months learning new language and not building anything functional at all. I would rather build something functional fast and see if it works and has demand.
- gbugniot 10y ago
  If someone spend many months learning a new language, but still can't be able to build something functional with it, I think he has a bigger problem...
  - efrafa 10y ago
    Its more about why would you go spend few months learning something, if you can build it in few days with electron.
    - fredsir 10y ago
      Because you can't. An Electron app is not equal to a native app when it comes to UX and UI. Right off the bat: they require more resources to run, thus making your computer slower, a laptops battery last less on a single charge, and don't look and work like native apps thus requires the user to learn a new paradigm. So instead of you, the developer, using a couple of months to learn a new paradigm, you put that burden on your users, and end up with something that is a whole lot worse than standard native apps on Mac, Linux and Windows. If you only have 1 user, that is no hassle, but if you have 5 million users, that is a whole lot of time that a whole lot of users needs to spend collectively because you are lazy and want to ship something fast instead of shipping something great. And no, I have never tried a great Electron app. I don't think they exist.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        > If you only have 1 user, that is no hassle, but if you have 5 million users, that is a whole lot of time that a whole lot of users needs to spend collectively because you are lazy and want to ship something fast instead of shipping something great. Exactly. That's the externality a lot of software companies nowadays generate.
      - oblio 10y ago
        What new paradigm? Almost every computer user out there knows the web paradigm. They use it on every platform. The barrier to entry for Electron apps is 0, the same as for native apps.
        fredsir 10y ago
        What are you talking about? Are you saying that because someone is adept at browsing Wikipedia or Hacker News, they intuitively know how to use Spotify and Slack and Atom?
      - oceanswave 10y ago
        "they require more resources to run, thus making your computer slower, a laptops battery last less on a single charge," But yet you used a either a browser or the HN mobile app (cordova) to post here... guess that means function > fitness.
        fredsir 10y ago
        That is one browser. Because of work, I also need Slack. That is two. You get the picture.
        oceanswave 10y ago
        I've also got Outlook open, so that's at least 25.
threatofrain 10y ago
How are you evaluating tool fitness here? The ultimate criteria for fitness are organizational / business goals, and that business or organization may have to juggle various constraints. Electron offers extra flexibility for businesses to make tradeoffs on app performance and size versus engineering cost, and that's its most important value. At first glance, Electron apps should be more maintainable, not less, because it's one toolset for multiple platforms, which should translate to faster development time and less total cost of maintenance at the tradeoff of app performance and size. Also, whether an app is difficult to maintain ought owe more whether (1) you have multiple diverse codebases and toolchains to maintain, and (2) that you have a disciplined engineering strategy. Again, whether or not Electron is the right tool for the job is a business decision based on business constraints.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > How are you evaluating tool fitness here? The ultimate criteria for fitness are organizational / business goals, and that business or organization may have to juggle various constraints Unfortunately, usability and ergonomics are rarely reflected in business "fitness functions" (hell, even making an actually useful tool rarely is these days, thanks in part to marketing having better ROI than delivering value). Business people take care of business goals, and I think it's our responsibility as developers to make applications that don't suck, whether or not it is reflected in the organizational "fitness function".

usaphp 10y ago

It's still better than spending many months learning new language and not building anything functional at all. I would rather build something functional fast and see if it works and has demand.

gbugniot 10y ago
If someone spend many months learning a new language, but still can't be able to build something functional with it, I think he has a bigger problem...
- efrafa 10y ago
  Its more about why would you go spend few months learning something, if you can build it in few days with electron.
  - fredsir 10y ago
    Because you can't. An Electron app is not equal to a native app when it comes to UX and UI. Right off the bat: they require more resources to run, thus making your computer slower, a laptops battery last less on a single charge, and don't look and work like native apps thus requires the user to learn a new paradigm. So instead of you, the developer, using a couple of months to learn a new paradigm, you put that burden on your users, and end up with something that is a whole lot worse than standard native apps on Mac, Linux and Windows. If you only have 1 user, that is no hassle, but if you have 5 million users, that is a whole lot of time that a whole lot of users needs to spend collectively because you are lazy and want to ship something fast instead of shipping something great. And no, I have never tried a great Electron app. I don't think they exist.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      > If you only have 1 user, that is no hassle, but if you have 5 million users, that is a whole lot of time that a whole lot of users needs to spend collectively because you are lazy and want to ship something fast instead of shipping something great. Exactly. That's the externality a lot of software companies nowadays generate.
    - oblio 10y ago
      What new paradigm? Almost every computer user out there knows the web paradigm. They use it on every platform. The barrier to entry for Electron apps is 0, the same as for native apps.
      - fredsir 10y ago
        What are you talking about? Are you saying that because someone is adept at browsing Wikipedia or Hacker News, they intuitively know how to use Spotify and Slack and Atom?
    - oceanswave 10y ago
      "they require more resources to run, thus making your computer slower, a laptops battery last less on a single charge," But yet you used a either a browser or the HN mobile app (cordova) to post here... guess that means function > fitness.
      - fredsir 10y ago
        That is one browser. Because of work, I also need Slack. That is two. You get the picture.
        oceanswave 10y ago
        I've also got Outlook open, so that's at least 25.

threatofrain 10y ago

How are you evaluating tool fitness here? The ultimate criteria for fitness are organizational / business goals, and that business or organization may have to juggle various constraints. Electron offers extra flexibility for businesses to make tradeoffs on app performance and size versus engineering cost, and that's its most important value. At first glance, Electron apps should be more maintainable, not less, because it's one toolset for multiple platforms, which should translate to faster development time and less total cost of maintenance at the tradeoff of app performance and size. Also, whether an app is difficult to maintain ought owe more whether (1) you have multiple diverse codebases and toolchains to maintain, and (2) that you have a disciplined engineering strategy. Again, whether or not Electron is the right tool for the job is a business decision based on business constraints.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
> How are you evaluating tool fitness here? The ultimate criteria for fitness are organizational / business goals, and that business or organization may have to juggle various constraints Unfortunately, usability and ergonomics are rarely reflected in business "fitness functions" (hell, even making an actually useful tool rarely is these days, thanks in part to marketing having better ROI than delivering value). Business people take care of business goals, and I think it's our responsibility as developers to make applications that don't suck, whether or not it is reflected in the organizational "fitness function".