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The thing that I do that feels like "free will" is use adaptive heuristic problem solving to explore an imperfectly mapped problem/solution space while attempti

The thing that I do that feels like "free will" is use adaptive heuristic problem solving to explore an imperfectly mapped problem/solution space while attempting to maximize value fulfillment payoff.

foldr 17y ago
Why would that feel like free will? Wouldn't it just feel like using adaptive heuristic problem solving to explore an imperfectly mapped problem/solution space while attempting to maximize value fulfillment payoff? It's of course logically possible that doing that could make someone feel like they had free will, but it seems a rather odd idea.
- JulianMorrison 17y ago
  Because the choice resulting from problem solving is adaptive and heuristic, I can't run it advance of the evidential state I'm in when I choose. I can't know the evidential state in advance, because the problem/solution space is imperfectly mapped. So it feels like my choices are not determined in advance. (However they're entirely determined at the instant I make them.)
  - foldr 17y ago
    I'm confused by the "because" in the first sentence and the "so" in the penultimate. I see no reason why the one thing should cause the other. As I say, it's logically possibly that there could be such a causal relation, but in general there's no reason to think that doing X should feel like doing Y -- you'd expect it to feel like doing X! If I don't know what my choice will be, I'd expect that to feel like not knowing what my choice will be. Which is a distinct state from feeling that I have freedom of choice. In fact if you use your imagination, you can come up with scenarios in which you don't know what your future choice will be, but it clearly doesn't feel like a free choice. E.g. if you say "I will choose to get a coffee if I roll the die and the number is 3 or above, or a tea otherwise."
    - JulianMorrison 17y ago
      Did you misread? That "because" is an internal connective inside the first sentence only. (I'd rephrase, but I'm not sure what would be clearer.) The part explaining the causal relationship is the penultimate sentence, "it feels like my choices are not determined in advance". "If I don't know what my choice will be, I'd expect that to feel like not knowing what my choice will be." You expect to know what your choice will be only when you choose it. That equals the feeling of "freedom of choice".
      - foldr 17y ago
        My mistake regarding because. Yes, I was talking about the causal relationship in the penultimate sentence only. >The part explaining the causal relationship is the penultimate sentence It doesn't explain it, it just asserts it. There is no reason why a lack of foreknowledge about your future decisions should make you feel as if you have free choice. It could just as well make you feel like you're bobbing around at random in the causal flux.
        JulianMorrison 17y ago
        Splitting the phrase/concept "free choice" into "free" and "choice", I have been mostly talking about the "free", because it describes the feeling that a choice "might be anything and I won't know until I've made it". Above, you are more concerned with whether it's a "choice" (versus "bobbing around at random") - but you know implicitly the mechanism is adaptive and heuristic and that it attempts to maximize value fulfillment payoff. So it will make a "choice" (defined in this context as a purposeful decision). Therefore, free choice.
        foldr 17y ago
        I don't think your analysis of "free choice" captures the relevant meaning. You can't answer these sorts of questions by playing with words. You need to think about the phenomenon that is being referred to, not the phrase I used to describe it. >but you know implicitly the mechanism is adaptive and heuristic and that it attempts to maximize value fulfillment payoff Actually, I'm not sure that I know any of those things (it might help if one of those terms actually meant something).

foldr 17y ago

Why would that feel like free will? Wouldn't it just feel like using adaptive heuristic problem solving to explore an imperfectly mapped problem/solution space while attempting to maximize value fulfillment payoff? It's of course logically possible that doing that could make someone feel like they had free will, but it seems a rather odd idea.

JulianMorrison 17y ago
Because the choice resulting from problem solving is adaptive and heuristic, I can't run it advance of the evidential state I'm in when I choose. I can't know the evidential state in advance, because the problem/solution space is imperfectly mapped. So it feels like my choices are not determined in advance. (However they're entirely determined at the instant I make them.)
- foldr 17y ago
  I'm confused by the "because" in the first sentence and the "so" in the penultimate. I see no reason why the one thing should cause the other. As I say, it's logically possibly that there could be such a causal relation, but in general there's no reason to think that doing X should feel like doing Y -- you'd expect it to feel like doing X! If I don't know what my choice will be, I'd expect that to feel like not knowing what my choice will be. Which is a distinct state from feeling that I have freedom of choice. In fact if you use your imagination, you can come up with scenarios in which you don't know what your future choice will be, but it clearly doesn't feel like a free choice. E.g. if you say "I will choose to get a coffee if I roll the die and the number is 3 or above, or a tea otherwise."
  - JulianMorrison 17y ago
    Did you misread? That "because" is an internal connective inside the first sentence only. (I'd rephrase, but I'm not sure what would be clearer.) The part explaining the causal relationship is the penultimate sentence, "it feels like my choices are not determined in advance". "If I don't know what my choice will be, I'd expect that to feel like not knowing what my choice will be." You expect to know what your choice will be only when you choose it. That equals the feeling of "freedom of choice".
    - foldr 17y ago
      My mistake regarding because. Yes, I was talking about the causal relationship in the penultimate sentence only. >The part explaining the causal relationship is the penultimate sentence It doesn't explain it, it just asserts it. There is no reason why a lack of foreknowledge about your future decisions should make you feel as if you have free choice. It could just as well make you feel like you're bobbing around at random in the causal flux.
      - JulianMorrison 17y ago
        Splitting the phrase/concept "free choice" into "free" and "choice", I have been mostly talking about the "free", because it describes the feeling that a choice "might be anything and I won't know until I've made it". Above, you are more concerned with whether it's a "choice" (versus "bobbing around at random") - but you know implicitly the mechanism is adaptive and heuristic and that it attempts to maximize value fulfillment payoff. So it will make a "choice" (defined in this context as a purposeful decision). Therefore, free choice.
        foldr 17y ago
        I don't think your analysis of "free choice" captures the relevant meaning. You can't answer these sorts of questions by playing with words. You need to think about the phenomenon that is being referred to, not the phrase I used to describe it. >but you know implicitly the mechanism is adaptive and heuristic and that it attempts to maximize value fulfillment payoff Actually, I'm not sure that I know any of those things (it might help if one of those terms actually meant something).