4 ms·

Was it ever a good job market for the young without college degrees?

knieveltech 10y ago
Yes. 20 years ago if you had a car & could show up for work on time, and had a decent work ethic you were more or less guaranteed a job of some kind that could be converted into a career. The trades, manufacturing, agriculture, and even programming jobs were available without a degree provided you could prove your competence in an interview.
dugditches 10y ago
When you could walk off the street(with no Highschool diploma) into a Manufacturing job with good pay, benefits, etc. And if they mistreated you, you could leave and go to another Factory in-town that did treat you well. So they tried to retain employees by treating them well. Versus today, where if you can manage to find a Manufacturing job you're under the thumb of the bosses. Because they know you have a mortgage, a family, and other expenses and that you _need_ the job. And they know you can't just walk down the street to another factory because it's not there anymore. The thing thrown around is that a College Degree is the equivalent of an Highschool Degree 20-30 years ago when finding a job.
- jdminhbg 10y ago
  > When you could walk off the street(with no Highschool diploma) into a Manufacturing job with good pay, benefits, etc. This sounds more like a good-ole-days fantasy than reality. Can you quantify when and what good pay and benefits were for someone without a high school degree who walked off the street?
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    I can't speak specifically to walking in off the street with no diploma/education at all, but I'll share this. 25-30 years ago some of my friends could fairly easily get line jobs at Ford/GM/etc with just a HS diploma. Of course, from what we were told, it wasn't as easy as way back in the 50s, but it was still a possibility in the 80s, and some of my friends did. In addition to direct work, there was a moderately large ecosystem of auto suppliers to work for, and many of them would still hire with a HS diploma. Friends of mine were starting in 1990/91 at $17/hr with some benefits and usually some overtime available. Min wage, at that time, was... IIRC, $3.35/hr. So.. 5x min wage with just a HS diploma was possible. That's not to say it's not possible now, but I don't think there's many employment situations like that (certainly much fewer than 50 years ago). You'd probably need to be self-employed to pull in $35-$50/hr with just a HS diploma these days, and you're then having to cover your own insurance and perks and whatnot. Hope that helps.
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    I can speak to this. In the early 90's you could walk into an Ironworker's union hall with a GED and be hired as a pre-apprentice with no prior experience in structural ironwork or fabrication for the princely sum of $8.50 an hour (almost double minimum wage). Day 1 you had health insurance and scheduled OJT to step up to apprentice, any work over 8 hours in a day was time and a half. Any work over 40 hours a week was time and a half. Hollidays and Sundays paid double. Guaranteed sick leave. Guaranteed breaks & lunch. Union hall handled 100% of your HR-related nonsense and also filled the role of recruiter to keep you working. If you wanted to travel they'd get you assigned to short term projects in around the country. If you wanted to stay home they'd look for a long term position for you at a local firm. I'm a little hazy on the exact timeline of events but at some point between getting your book and going Journeyman you started contributing to the union pension fund and monies were set aside for a retirement annuity. TL;DR: GED = double minimum wage, paid OJT, full medical/dental/vision insurance, retirement, annuity, and job placement services from day 1 in the door.
rs999gti 10y ago
Yes there are plenty of jobs in the trades. From the BLS: http://www.explorethetrades.org/why-choose-the-trades/ http://www.explorethetrades.org/why-choose-the-trades/ Plenty of growth in HVAC, electrician, and plumbing fields. And even in a downturn these jobs are still needed and cannot be outsourced.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Anecdote: I've been trying to get a bathroom refurb done for about 6 months now and haven't been able to get a plumber. Certainly, there's a degree of boom or bust with the trades but in a growth area such as where I live, the market is tight.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
Sure. College degrees were still sort of unusual even in the 1970s.

Yes. 20 years ago if you had a car & could show up for work on time, and had a decent work ethic you were more or less guaranteed a job of some kind that could be converted into a career. The trades, manufacturing, agriculture, and even programming jobs were available without a degree provided you could prove your competence in an interview.

dugditches 10y ago

When you could walk off the street(with no Highschool diploma) into a Manufacturing job with good pay, benefits, etc. And if they mistreated you, you could leave and go to another Factory in-town that did treat you well. So they tried to retain employees by treating them well. Versus today, where if you can manage to find a Manufacturing job you're under the thumb of the bosses. Because they know you have a mortgage, a family, and other expenses and that you _need_ the job. And they know you can't just walk down the street to another factory because it's not there anymore. The thing thrown around is that a College Degree is the equivalent of an Highschool Degree 20-30 years ago when finding a job.

jdminhbg 10y ago
> When you could walk off the street(with no Highschool diploma) into a Manufacturing job with good pay, benefits, etc. This sounds more like a good-ole-days fantasy than reality. Can you quantify when and what good pay and benefits were for someone without a high school degree who walked off the street?
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  I can't speak specifically to walking in off the street with no diploma/education at all, but I'll share this. 25-30 years ago some of my friends could fairly easily get line jobs at Ford/GM/etc with just a HS diploma. Of course, from what we were told, it wasn't as easy as way back in the 50s, but it was still a possibility in the 80s, and some of my friends did. In addition to direct work, there was a moderately large ecosystem of auto suppliers to work for, and many of them would still hire with a HS diploma. Friends of mine were starting in 1990/91 at $17/hr with some benefits and usually some overtime available. Min wage, at that time, was... IIRC, $3.35/hr. So.. 5x min wage with just a HS diploma was possible. That's not to say it's not possible now, but I don't think there's many employment situations like that (certainly much fewer than 50 years ago). You'd probably need to be self-employed to pull in $35-$50/hr with just a HS diploma these days, and you're then having to cover your own insurance and perks and whatnot. Hope that helps.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  I can speak to this. In the early 90's you could walk into an Ironworker's union hall with a GED and be hired as a pre-apprentice with no prior experience in structural ironwork or fabrication for the princely sum of $8.50 an hour (almost double minimum wage). Day 1 you had health insurance and scheduled OJT to step up to apprentice, any work over 8 hours in a day was time and a half. Any work over 40 hours a week was time and a half. Hollidays and Sundays paid double. Guaranteed sick leave. Guaranteed breaks & lunch. Union hall handled 100% of your HR-related nonsense and also filled the role of recruiter to keep you working. If you wanted to travel they'd get you assigned to short term projects in around the country. If you wanted to stay home they'd look for a long term position for you at a local firm. I'm a little hazy on the exact timeline of events but at some point between getting your book and going Journeyman you started contributing to the union pension fund and monies were set aside for a retirement annuity. TL;DR: GED = double minimum wage, paid OJT, full medical/dental/vision insurance, retirement, annuity, and job placement services from day 1 in the door.

rs999gti 10y ago

Yes there are plenty of jobs in the trades. From the BLS: http://www.explorethetrades.org/why-choose-the-trades/ http://www.explorethetrades.org/why-choose-the-trades/ Plenty of growth in HVAC, electrician, and plumbing fields. And even in a downturn these jobs are still needed and cannot be outsourced.

ghaff 10y ago
Anecdote: I've been trying to get a bathroom refurb done for about 6 months now and haven't been able to get a plumber. Certainly, there's a degree of boom or bust with the trades but in a growth area such as where I live, the market is tight.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

Sure. College degrees were still sort of unusual even in the 1970s.