4 ms·

I feel the same way. Just build an independent app already. Telegram did it well. What's stopping WhatsApp ?

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
As kawera said two comments above yours: Their servers do not store unencrypted messages so they need to come from the phone. ---- That's why some people criticise Telegram: Their messages have to be stored unencrypted for their setup to work.
- kawera 10y ago
  Exactly. Telegram's "Secret Conversations" are encrypted end-to-end but then they aren't synced (or even supported on desktop).
  - newjersey 10y ago
    My workaround for this is to create a group chat. I only talk to two people on Signal but I've asked both of them to message in the group chat that I've made. Now, I can answer chat messages on my nexus 5, nexus 6, and nexus 7. (I built the apk from source for the Nexus 7. I wouldn't recommend this if you actually want secrecy. I'm not doing anything confidential so I am not too worried about targeted attempts.)
- khedoros 10y ago
  What's stopping them from either providing a way to sync the key to other devices, or allow the device to register its own keys, and they just store a couple copies of the encrypted data? It seems like there should be ways to do it without storing unencrypted data.
- dingo_bat 10y ago
  AFAIK Apple Message implements encryption and has independent clients. So I think the problem can be solved with some effort.
  - neerdowell 10y ago
    Each device has its own key. Before a message is sent, the client grabs all the keys for each device associated with the account of the recipient, it then encrypts the message separately for each device and sends a separate encrypted copy for each device. This scheme has various weaknesses, eg. a rogue key could be associated with someone's account without their knowledge, and anyone who sends this person messages will therefore be sending a copy encrypted with the rogue key.
bikamonki 10y ago
Monetization strategy is what's stopping Whatsapp. Eventually, there will be an official API so business can hook CRMs to clients' Whatsapp accounts. However, FB is first trying that with Messenger API/bots. I assume Whatsapp API/bots comes next. FB did not pay billions for the most popular chat app just to let 1 billion people use it for free forever...
- lucb1e 10y ago
  Free? Every WhatsApp user paid Facebook on day one with the contents of their address book and how frequently one person contacts another. This is of huge value if your business model is exactly to gather this kind of data.
  - lunula 10y ago
    All the talk about encryption and privacy seems to ignore this basic point. Association can be dangerous and this does not protect people from exposing themselves in that way.
  - bikamonki 10y ago
    True, but to be honest I am not sure that alone is worth 22B, in particular when you have to show shareholders how you plan to make that money back. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-28/facebook-s-22-billion-whatsapp-deal-buys-10-million-in-sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-28/facebook-s...
raimue 10y ago
Telegram also only shares unencrypted chats across multiple devices.

As kawera said two comments above yours: Their servers do not store unencrypted messages so they need to come from the phone. ---- That's why some people criticise Telegram: Their messages have to be stored unencrypted for their setup to work.

kawera 10y ago
Exactly. Telegram's "Secret Conversations" are encrypted end-to-end but then they aren't synced (or even supported on desktop).
- newjersey 10y ago
  My workaround for this is to create a group chat. I only talk to two people on Signal but I've asked both of them to message in the group chat that I've made. Now, I can answer chat messages on my nexus 5, nexus 6, and nexus 7. (I built the apk from source for the Nexus 7. I wouldn't recommend this if you actually want secrecy. I'm not doing anything confidential so I am not too worried about targeted attempts.)
khedoros 10y ago
What's stopping them from either providing a way to sync the key to other devices, or allow the device to register its own keys, and they just store a couple copies of the encrypted data? It seems like there should be ways to do it without storing unencrypted data.
dingo_bat 10y ago
AFAIK Apple Message implements encryption and has independent clients. So I think the problem can be solved with some effort.
- neerdowell 10y ago
  Each device has its own key. Before a message is sent, the client grabs all the keys for each device associated with the account of the recipient, it then encrypts the message separately for each device and sends a separate encrypted copy for each device. This scheme has various weaknesses, eg. a rogue key could be associated with someone's account without their knowledge, and anyone who sends this person messages will therefore be sending a copy encrypted with the rogue key.

bikamonki 10y ago

Monetization strategy is what's stopping Whatsapp. Eventually, there will be an official API so business can hook CRMs to clients' Whatsapp accounts. However, FB is first trying that with Messenger API/bots. I assume Whatsapp API/bots comes next. FB did not pay billions for the most popular chat app just to let 1 billion people use it for free forever...

lucb1e 10y ago
Free? Every WhatsApp user paid Facebook on day one with the contents of their address book and how frequently one person contacts another. This is of huge value if your business model is exactly to gather this kind of data.
- lunula 10y ago
  All the talk about encryption and privacy seems to ignore this basic point. Association can be dangerous and this does not protect people from exposing themselves in that way.
- bikamonki 10y ago
  True, but to be honest I am not sure that alone is worth 22B, in particular when you have to show shareholders how you plan to make that money back. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-28/facebook-s-22-billion-whatsapp-deal-buys-10-million-in-sales http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-28/facebook-s...

raimue 10y ago

Telegram also only shares unencrypted chats across multiple devices.