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For those interested in pcb design and you're not tied to FOSS I'd definitely recommend trying upverter.com. It's made loads of progress in the last few years

For those interested in pcb design and you're not tied to FOSS I'd definitely recommend trying upverter.com. It's made loads of progress in the last few years and is probably the best / easiest to use layout software for beginners that I've come across. I've worked with eagle, altium, and briefly KiCad but I can never get over the tediousness of using KiCad. I recently checked out upverter and after watching their tutorial was able to design an LCD adapter board from start to finish in ~2 hours. Not trying to knock too hard on KiCad because it's great that we have an FOSS option, but if you're just into tinkering, upverter definitely has an easier learning curve and is pretty powerful. I always find that I want to spend my tinkering time actually getting my project designed instead of fighting with tooling.

Animats 10y ago
KiCAD does seem to have a tediousness problem. The tutorial shows a process for creating a new parts library which requires far too many steps - saving some random part into a new library to create it, telling the part designer about the new library, and starting from a blank part which has text in the way of what you're creating. Also, moving something by holding "M" and dragging with the mouse seems a holdover from the DOS era. Of course, if you don't like that, you can remap the hotkeys. That's so open-source.
- taneq 10y ago
  You don't have to hold 'm', you can just press it while hovering over a component. Just like you can in the schematic except the hotkey is 'g'. Or you can do in the OpenGL PCB renderer (but not the default renderer) with a simple click-and-drag. Oh and you can't undo/redo in track laying mode even if you're not laying a track. The user interface is insanely fragmented, is what I'm getting at.
- svens_ 10y ago
  That's exactly what I was thinking - the footprint editor is horrible in that aspect. You don't have to hold "M" to move, it picks up the component when pressing. The shortcuts in general are not as nicely placed as Altium, e.g. Zoom-to-fit (Home) is very awkward. Sure you can change that, but stuff like this requires a lot of time and the setup will be incompatible with other people (and one might have to adapt it on the next update, etc.).
- mng2 10y ago
  Electronic CAD is tedium, honestly. Even the expensive stuff I use at work is tedious, which is why we have a PCB layout department. I haven't used KiCAD for several years, but in the past I used Rohrbacher's Quick Library Builder [0] to generate parts. Otherwise making parts is indeed a pain. I enjoy KiCAD's single-key commands, though. 0: http://kicad.rohrbacher.net/quicklib.php http://kicad.rohrbacher.net/quicklib.php
ChrisGammell 10y ago
KiCad definitely has a learning curve, which is why I made these and many other videos. I have scaled back my arguments a bit, but I'm not a fan of the network connected, in-browser tools (wrote about it previously here: https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/simple-plane-experiment-kicad-vs-circuitmaker-vs-upverter/ https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/simple-plane-expe...). I rather like the Upverter guys as well, I have had them on my podcast in the past: http://www.theamphour.com/the-amp-hour-163-ramiform-reciprocity-raconteurs/ http://www.theamphour.com/the-amp-hour-163-ramiform-reciproc.... I'm sure to lose this argument (browser tools) over the long term, as I think more things are moving that way. But for now I prefer a localized version of my CAD software and the fact that it's FOSS is a bonus. The thing I can't figure out is what happens if Upverter goes away at some point in the future? They have good exporters it seems, but there's no way to run the software without their servers AFAIK. I know people still running local copies of Protel99 (ie. all of China). Will that be possible with Upverter?
abetusk 10y ago
Upverter has all the standard trappings of proprietary SaaS businesses (see [1] for a flame-baity editorial). I think KiCAD is awesome but the learning curve is steep, the interface is a little dated and it's hard to get started and/or share your schematics easily (e.g. online). This was one of the reasons why I wanted to like Upverter so much but the fact they were just another closed source business was a no-go for me. Anyway, I created MeowCAD as an alternative [2]. It's free and open source [3] allowing you to do circuit design in your browser. Sorry for the shameless self promotion. [1] http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2011/09/21/editorial-upverter-another-closed-source-vampire-exploits-open-hardware-for-ventrue-capital-pr-and-profit/ http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2011/09/21/editorial-upv... [2] https://www.meowcad.com https://www.meowcad.com [3] https://github.com/abetusk/www.meowcad.com https://github.com/abetusk/www.meowcad.com
- cushychicken 10y ago
  I tried Upverter a few weeks back, and thought their UI made some wacky choices, particularly where sliding connected components is involved. Lack of hotkeys also was a big shortcoming in my mind. Eagle and KiCAD are no picnic to start with, but they do at least have some features that allow you to speed up your schematic capture/board layout. I've always wondered if there wasn't a business to be had in doing part creation for Eagle/KiCAD as a service...
  - ChrisGammell 10y ago
    At one point I started thinking about setting up a business around KiCad with a ruggedized and supported distribution of the EDA, similar to how Red Hat works. The name? Tin Hat.
    - cushychicken 10y ago
      I like the idea. Always wondered if there wasn't room for another EE CAD program. I always find myself frustrated by something when I use one.
  - zakhomuth 10y ago
c22 10y ago
For an open source option with a small learning curve I like Fritzing.
borgel 10y ago
I've been using Upverter for a couple weeks on a series of boards and have mixed feelings. Broadly it seems to work fine though there are a few niggles here and there. There are definitely some random bugs (DXF board outline import?) and they have been silent on the support forums for a few weeks.

Animats 10y ago

KiCAD does seem to have a tediousness problem. The tutorial shows a process for creating a new parts library which requires far too many steps - saving some random part into a new library to create it, telling the part designer about the new library, and starting from a blank part which has text in the way of what you're creating. Also, moving something by holding "M" and dragging with the mouse seems a holdover from the DOS era. Of course, if you don't like that, you can remap the hotkeys. That's so open-source.

taneq 10y ago
You don't have to hold 'm', you can just press it while hovering over a component. Just like you can in the schematic except the hotkey is 'g'. Or you can do in the OpenGL PCB renderer (but not the default renderer) with a simple click-and-drag. Oh and you can't undo/redo in track laying mode even if you're not laying a track. The user interface is insanely fragmented, is what I'm getting at.
svens_ 10y ago
That's exactly what I was thinking - the footprint editor is horrible in that aspect. You don't have to hold "M" to move, it picks up the component when pressing. The shortcuts in general are not as nicely placed as Altium, e.g. Zoom-to-fit (Home) is very awkward. Sure you can change that, but stuff like this requires a lot of time and the setup will be incompatible with other people (and one might have to adapt it on the next update, etc.).
mng2 10y ago
Electronic CAD is tedium, honestly. Even the expensive stuff I use at work is tedious, which is why we have a PCB layout department. I haven't used KiCAD for several years, but in the past I used Rohrbacher's Quick Library Builder [0] to generate parts. Otherwise making parts is indeed a pain. I enjoy KiCAD's single-key commands, though. 0: http://kicad.rohrbacher.net/quicklib.php http://kicad.rohrbacher.net/quicklib.php

ChrisGammell 10y ago

KiCad definitely has a learning curve, which is why I made these and many other videos. I have scaled back my arguments a bit, but I'm not a fan of the network connected, in-browser tools (wrote about it previously here: https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/simple-plane-experiment-kicad-vs-circuitmaker-vs-upverter/ https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/simple-plane-expe...). I rather like the Upverter guys as well, I have had them on my podcast in the past: http://www.theamphour.com/the-amp-hour-163-ramiform-reciprocity-raconteurs/ http://www.theamphour.com/the-amp-hour-163-ramiform-reciproc.... I'm sure to lose this argument (browser tools) over the long term, as I think more things are moving that way. But for now I prefer a localized version of my CAD software and the fact that it's FOSS is a bonus. The thing I can't figure out is what happens if Upverter goes away at some point in the future? They have good exporters it seems, but there's no way to run the software without their servers AFAIK. I know people still running local copies of Protel99 (ie. all of China). Will that be possible with Upverter?

abetusk 10y ago

Upverter has all the standard trappings of proprietary SaaS businesses (see [1] for a flame-baity editorial). I think KiCAD is awesome but the learning curve is steep, the interface is a little dated and it's hard to get started and/or share your schematics easily (e.g. online). This was one of the reasons why I wanted to like Upverter so much but the fact they were just another closed source business was a no-go for me. Anyway, I created MeowCAD as an alternative [2]. It's free and open source [3] allowing you to do circuit design in your browser. Sorry for the shameless self promotion. [1] http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2011/09/21/editorial-upverter-another-closed-source-vampire-exploits-open-hardware-for-ventrue-capital-pr-and-profit/ http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2011/09/21/editorial-upv... [2] https://www.meowcad.com https://www.meowcad.com [3] https://github.com/abetusk/www.meowcad.com https://github.com/abetusk/www.meowcad.com

cushychicken 10y ago
I tried Upverter a few weeks back, and thought their UI made some wacky choices, particularly where sliding connected components is involved. Lack of hotkeys also was a big shortcoming in my mind. Eagle and KiCAD are no picnic to start with, but they do at least have some features that allow you to speed up your schematic capture/board layout. I've always wondered if there wasn't a business to be had in doing part creation for Eagle/KiCAD as a service...
- ChrisGammell 10y ago
  At one point I started thinking about setting up a business around KiCad with a ruggedized and supported distribution of the EDA, similar to how Red Hat works. The name? Tin Hat.
  - cushychicken 10y ago
    I like the idea. Always wondered if there wasn't room for another EE CAD program. I always find myself frustrated by something when I use one.
- zakhomuth 10y ago

c22 10y ago

For an open source option with a small learning curve I like Fritzing.

borgel 10y ago

I've been using Upverter for a couple weeks on a series of boards and have mixed feelings. Broadly it seems to work fine though there are a few niggles here and there. There are definitely some random bugs (DXF board outline import?) and they have been silent on the support forums for a few weeks.