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> You are still as free as before to make your own websites and share your content the way it was done before Facebook. And nobody will read them if you don't

> You are still as free as before to make your own websites and share your content the way it was done before Facebook. And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. > But it's the people that are at fault here, they are the ones that let themselves get hoodwinked. Did you really claim that scam victims are to blame when they get scammed, and not the scammers? I'm all for avoiding naiveté, but that doesn't excuse the actions of manipulative people and organizations.

vinceguidry 10y ago
> And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. That's not an issue with Facebook, it's the natural consequence of being popular. Things are popular because the public likes them. You can't say that something being powerful because the public made them powerful is undemocratic. Either you're giving the public what they want or you're not. Dethroning Facebook would be profoundly undemocratic. Facebook is a public institution, albeit under private management. > Did you really claim that scam victims are to blame when they get scammed, and not the scammers? The people are bigger than the politicians. Politicians have to, at some point, give the people what they want. The days where you can brutally put down rebellions is over. Not even CCP can get away with it. Napoleon could not have given Europe war if the French truly didn't want war. Napoleon did not have to scam the French, they went into it willingly. Democracy is the progressive march of what most people want over what a few people want. If what most people want is stupid, democracy will not save you from that.
- blub 10y ago
  There is no such thing as a public institution under private management. Facebook is a corporate entity with control over a large part of the internet and no accountability towards their user base. When a private institution has so much power there need to be rules put in place that make sure they won't abuse that power to the detriment of everyone else. Democracy is about people, not the rights of corporations. Your claims about the power of the people are amusingly misguided as reading a little bit about history will tell you. Pointers: propaganda, public opinion manipulation.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    If you'd read more than "a little bit" of history, you'd be able to see these things in proper perspective. Multinational corporations are inherently more democratic, more public, than governments. A government derives its capacity to operate from violence, you are forced to pay taxes. A corporation has to be accountable to a marketplace, and must operate within the law of countries it operates in. Markets are ultimately more powerful than governments, that's why authoritarians want to tell people what they can sell to whom and how. Markets provide the people with ways to get things that don't come from the government, that's how they undermine authority. I stand by my statement that Facebook is a public institution. It's publicly traded, you can buy voting shares and get a say in how the company is run. Of course Facebook is accountable to its user base, that's ultimately where they get all their revenue from. Facebook is more accountable than democratic governments are, you can't choose to not pay your taxes. Also, what is the practical difference between public and private management? Manipulating public opinion is ridiculously hard and only the most hardcore authoritarian states are capable of doing so effectively. Even then it's a cat and mouse game, the truth has ways of getting out.
    - devishard 10y ago
      > Multinational corporations are inherently more democratic, more public, than governments. You have drunk so much of the capitalist Kool-aid that your brain is no longer receiving oxygen. > A corporation has to be accountable to a marketplace This is not democracy, it's plutocracy.
- devishard 10y ago
  You're basically saying: 1. Facebook isn't responsible for the bad things they do because people let them do what they're doing. 2. Therefore Facebook isn't bad. 3. Therefore people should keep letting Facebook do what they're doing. Do you really not see the problem here?

vinceguidry 10y ago

> And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. That's not an issue with Facebook, it's the natural consequence of being popular. Things are popular because the public likes them. You can't say that something being powerful because the public made them powerful is undemocratic. Either you're giving the public what they want or you're not. Dethroning Facebook would be profoundly undemocratic. Facebook is a public institution, albeit under private management. > Did you really claim that scam victims are to blame when they get scammed, and not the scammers? The people are bigger than the politicians. Politicians have to, at some point, give the people what they want. The days where you can brutally put down rebellions is over. Not even CCP can get away with it. Napoleon could not have given Europe war if the French truly didn't want war. Napoleon did not have to scam the French, they went into it willingly. Democracy is the progressive march of what most people want over what a few people want. If what most people want is stupid, democracy will not save you from that.

blub 10y ago
There is no such thing as a public institution under private management. Facebook is a corporate entity with control over a large part of the internet and no accountability towards their user base. When a private institution has so much power there need to be rules put in place that make sure they won't abuse that power to the detriment of everyone else. Democracy is about people, not the rights of corporations. Your claims about the power of the people are amusingly misguided as reading a little bit about history will tell you. Pointers: propaganda, public opinion manipulation.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  If you'd read more than "a little bit" of history, you'd be able to see these things in proper perspective. Multinational corporations are inherently more democratic, more public, than governments. A government derives its capacity to operate from violence, you are forced to pay taxes. A corporation has to be accountable to a marketplace, and must operate within the law of countries it operates in. Markets are ultimately more powerful than governments, that's why authoritarians want to tell people what they can sell to whom and how. Markets provide the people with ways to get things that don't come from the government, that's how they undermine authority. I stand by my statement that Facebook is a public institution. It's publicly traded, you can buy voting shares and get a say in how the company is run. Of course Facebook is accountable to its user base, that's ultimately where they get all their revenue from. Facebook is more accountable than democratic governments are, you can't choose to not pay your taxes. Also, what is the practical difference between public and private management? Manipulating public opinion is ridiculously hard and only the most hardcore authoritarian states are capable of doing so effectively. Even then it's a cat and mouse game, the truth has ways of getting out.
  - devishard 10y ago
    > Multinational corporations are inherently more democratic, more public, than governments. You have drunk so much of the capitalist Kool-aid that your brain is no longer receiving oxygen. > A corporation has to be accountable to a marketplace This is not democracy, it's plutocracy.
devishard 10y ago
You're basically saying: 1. Facebook isn't responsible for the bad things they do because people let them do what they're doing. 2. Therefore Facebook isn't bad. 3. Therefore people should keep letting Facebook do what they're doing. Do you really not see the problem here?