3 ms·

Give it another year and the new batch of hotshot developers will reinvent static typing and perhaps one or two other features from the 1970s, but it'll have so

by biot 10y ago

Give it another year and the new batch of hotshot developers will reinvent static typing and perhaps one or two other features from the 1970s, but it'll have some cool name and only implement 50% of the functionality.

andybak 10y ago
Modern static typing isn't remotely related to typing from the "1970's"
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  Well, depends on what you mean with modern static typing. In some ways, mainstream programming is finally catching up with ML, which is from the 1970s. If you mean cutting edge PL research it's a different story of course.
- CuriousSkeptic 10y ago
  Ok, 1969, but fairly close! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley–Milner_type_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley–Milner_type_system
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    The type systems in modern languages like Swift, Rust, Scala, Haskell, and even Kotlin go way beyond classical Hindley-Milner. Classical Hindley-Milner gives you parametric polymorphism over algebraic data types, along with an inference algorithm. No subtyping, no casts, no coercions, no overloading, no polymorphic literals, no interfaces. You basically get SML. Consider that in 2006, MPTCs with fundeps was the preferred way to represent "a collection of items that can be compared via equality" [1]. Associated types were a vague research idea [2] that showed a lot of promise, but hadn't been implemented in any language with type inference (they did exist in C++ templates, but C++ isn't exactly what people think of when you say "modern type system"). Now both Rust and Swift feature polished implementations of associated types and use them pervasively in the standard library. [1] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Advanced_type_classes#Multi-parameter_type_classes https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Advanced_type_classes#... [2] https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/AssociatedTypes https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/AssociatedTypes
    - naasking 10y ago
      > You basically get SML. SML is still more usable than the statically type languages in use the most today (C++ and Java).
      - nostrademons 10y ago
        Yes, but by "modern static typing" I think we're talking about the latest generation of languages that have come out since 2010 (Swift, Rust, Kotlin, etc.)
taneq 10y ago
"This will be the sixth time we have reinvented basic programming, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."
- Gaelan 10y ago
  What is that a reference to?
  - taneq 10y ago
    The Architect's big speech in The Matrix Reloaded, where he's talking about the machines tearing down and restarting the Matrix. "But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." It was from memory and so a bit munged, though.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

by biot 10y ago

andybak 10y ago

Modern static typing isn't remotely related to typing from the "1970's"

vanderZwan 10y ago
Well, depends on what you mean with modern static typing. In some ways, mainstream programming is finally catching up with ML, which is from the 1970s. If you mean cutting edge PL research it's a different story of course.
CuriousSkeptic 10y ago
Ok, 1969, but fairly close! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley–Milner_type_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley–Milner_type_system
- nostrademons 10y ago
  The type systems in modern languages like Swift, Rust, Scala, Haskell, and even Kotlin go way beyond classical Hindley-Milner. Classical Hindley-Milner gives you parametric polymorphism over algebraic data types, along with an inference algorithm. No subtyping, no casts, no coercions, no overloading, no polymorphic literals, no interfaces. You basically get SML. Consider that in 2006, MPTCs with fundeps was the preferred way to represent "a collection of items that can be compared via equality" [1]. Associated types were a vague research idea [2] that showed a lot of promise, but hadn't been implemented in any language with type inference (they did exist in C++ templates, but C++ isn't exactly what people think of when you say "modern type system"). Now both Rust and Swift feature polished implementations of associated types and use them pervasively in the standard library. [1] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Advanced_type_classes#Multi-parameter_type_classes https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Advanced_type_classes#... [2] https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/AssociatedTypes https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/AssociatedTypes
  - naasking 10y ago
    > You basically get SML. SML is still more usable than the statically type languages in use the most today (C++ and Java).
    - nostrademons 10y ago
      Yes, but by "modern static typing" I think we're talking about the latest generation of languages that have come out since 2010 (Swift, Rust, Kotlin, etc.)

taneq 10y ago

"This will be the sixth time we have reinvented basic programming, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

Gaelan 10y ago
What is that a reference to?
- taneq 10y ago
  The Architect's big speech in The Matrix Reloaded, where he's talking about the machines tearing down and restarting the Matrix. "But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." It was from memory and so a bit munged, though.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]