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> now with 100% less "spyware" > Canonical dug itself an even deeper hole when it went after [...] FixUbuntu.com for trademark violations. 1. I find it both p

by tajen 10y ago

> now with 100% less "spyware" > Canonical dug itself an even deeper hole when it went after [...] FixUbuntu.com for trademark violations. 1. I find it both positive and daunting that the first section of this press release is "They're not being assholes this time". Linux systems should be the guardians of nonspying/noncloud systems. 2. It's excellent they have a theme on stability. I'm not sure how many customers it costs them every year. I personally when to Mac after my second Ubuntu upgrade (1st: the mouse, 2nd: the network). 3. I'd pay $200/yr for a free OS on a developer machine which just works, where I don't even know whether I'm running Gnome, Unity or KDE. I also want UX improvements (the Amazon search) to be well-UX tested (or rejected) before publication. Something like elementary.io, without the installation errors (yeah I've tried), and with on-the-phone magicians if there's a problem. Something like Mac OS X, but paid. I hope they'll do it one day, I wonder whether there's enough customers for that.

Skunkleton 10y ago
If you are careful with your hardware selection, #3 is totally doable. For example my work PC (Xeon E5-1650, nVidia Quadro K2000) has had absolutely no compatibility or stability issues. I had the exact opposite experience trying to install Linux on my macbook pro. I have heard good things about the Dell XPS (the one that comes in a 'developer' edition). You also might try virtualization. With paravirtualized drivers, and VT-x support in the CPU, you run at near native speeds, and it is all very stable.
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  Word of warning, The XPS DE is definitely _not_ perfect. When I got my XPS 13 DE last year they had a multitude of issues I could go on and on about, but the bottom line is that the laptop was completely unusable out of the box. Part of the issue is that the Sputnik team has to take the XPS 13 hardware as is (as it was designed for Windows) and try to support it. They are releasing the drivers upstream (at least they were when I last checked) so that's awesome! But it meant I had crazy stability issues until the 3.19 kernel release. The newer models of the XPS 13 DE seem to have better hardware for linux (Intel vs. Broadcom wireless for example) so it may be better, but I would still encourage anyone looking at the Sputnik projects to consider the Precision M3800 instead (15" workstation version of the XPS 13). There are also some other Dell workstations available now that might have better hardware for Linux. Edit: Also I have owned a couple of System76 laptops and have had 0 issues with them out of the box. But their drivers are proprietary (AFAIK) and their chassis are Clevo...so definitely not in the same ballpark as the XPS when it comes to build quality.
semisight 10y ago
For 3., I've been interested in the same. How would it work though? Would it include non-free components, or be open source? If it's open source, why would the majority of people pay? I say this as someone who would definitely pay. I'd love to see something like an XPS developer edition, but with a (relatively) coherent graphics paradigm like OS X.
- tajen 10y ago
  > If it's open source, why would the majority of people pay? We could have paid access to the repositories. Yes anyone can redistribute it, but it's cumbersome and it gives you a delay for the bugfixes, so people with the ability to pay will prefer the official method. Especially if they know they're funding open-source and if they get a good service. However, to stay legit in the OSS ecosystem we need to redistribute part of the donations.
takno 10y ago
This isn't a press release, it's a review
Frondo 10y ago
On #3, I'll just plug Mageia again. I use the KDE version (I know, I know, you didn't want to know) since 2011, and it's the only linux I've ever used that "just works". I've had it on several laptops and a desktop, and haven't once touched a config file by hand. I've more or less forgotten all of my old Linux hand-editing juju. They're the community-driven spinoff from Mandriva, and they're the only Linux I'd recommend to anyone anymore: https://www.mageia.org/ https://www.mageia.org/
teekert 10y ago
You don't have to pay anyone for something that just works, take that 200$/yr and pay it to yourself as you investigate if your hardware is well supported by Linux. Alternatively, go for System76 or Entroware hardware. That hardware ships with Linux.
- blackoil 10y ago
  This assumes the time taken and effort will be worth less then 200 dollars, which may not be true for all.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  Time is money- plenty of people would trade $200 for not having to spend time doing that. That's the sort of thing that's really fun and cool and interesting if someone's a hobbyist and/or student and/or in the larval hacker stage, but at some point in life after spending decades having to make sure their hardware is supported by Linux/FreeBSD/whatever, the bloom can come off that rose pretty hard and it's a blessing to just give someone money to worry about something you don't want (or don't have the time) to spend time doing. Of course, plenty of people do have plenty of time to read HOWTOs and hardware compatibility lists and so on and still enjoy doing so- more power to them. Especially if $200 (or whatever) is still a meaningful amount of money to them that they need for other things. But I've always felt that a big reason why so many people advocate that approach and present it as a rational choice is because they themselves enjoy doing that and would do it anyway regardless of the time/money tradeoff.
  - willholloway 10y ago
    I don't think Linux has that much of a hardware compatibility problem these days. I've built several intel PCs over the last few years without ever researching hardware compatibility and every one Just Worked with a basic Ubuntu install. Integrated wifi, and even AMD graphics cards are supported out of the box.
    - dagw 10y ago
      Home built PCs are generally not a problem since they all use common, fairly generic, parts. Laptops on the other hand tend to rely more on custom hardware and solutions.
willholloway 10y ago
Just buy a Macbook Air and install Ubuntu on it. It will Just Work. Wifi, screen brightness buttons, volume buttons, suspend on lid close... everything will Just Work.
- ino 10y ago
  How does the trackpad feel? How's the battery life?
  - willholloway 10y ago
    Trackpad is great, battery life probably a bit less than os x, Im using a mid 2012 and get 3 hours, want to upgrade to the next model with the 9-12 hour life.
    - jsli 10y ago
      Em...that's just half of what OS X can do. I have the same model, but my laptop can last at least 7hours in a coffee shop.
      - willholloway 10y ago
        This is the 11" mid 2012, 13" has larger battery -- I was lucky to get 4 hours with os x when I first bought the machine, the battery is now 4 years old and gives me 2:30-3 hours under latest Ubuntu.
- _lce0 10y ago
  This! but YMMV, here's my journey so far... Using Ubuntu on a 2016 MBP Retina 15" 1. First 14.x: mostly functional, trackpad was buggy. Brightness wont work. No Bluetooth. Blame on kernel 3.x 2. Then 15.x: almost functional! mostly everything worked great wth kernel 4.x, but no bluetooth nor camera. That's ok, I can live without that 3. Now 16.10: almost perfect. Bluetooth works again. Still no camera, but I have trust it will soonish :) Also the machine never shutdown nor suspend correctly. I need to restart the machine, press ESC, write "exit" at grub, and then pick "poweroff" form the UEFI menu. But even with all this drawbacks, I don't regret and full recommend to try this setup. This is the best hardware/software combo. And even the battery last more than 12 hours with linux!
rlpb 10y ago
Send your $200/yr to the free OS that comes the closest to "just works" for you, even if you don't use it. If everyone did that, our free OSes would be far better than any other alternative.
- tajen 10y ago
  "If everyone did that", yes, but everyone isn't. That's where marketing is important. I wish Elementary.io were a fully-assumed for-profit able to trigger a snowball effect of customers around a Mac-level quality. Especially as Mac OS X quality is decreasing.
- balamaci 10y ago
  It's hard to decide to give them something with this list of options - really what can you choose here http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute/?version=16.04&architecture=amd64 http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute/?version=1... the alternatives are: 1. Ubuntu for personal and mobile computing - I want convergence now! - really? I'm just afraid it will push the desktop version to suck more like Unity. 2. Ubuntu for cloud computing - I want Ubuntu running my cloud and as a guest in my cloud of choice. - well I'd rather have Ubuntu be my desktop choice and have them more focused on that. 3.Ubuntu for things - I want a secure, upgradeable Internet of Things, powered by Ubuntu. - Well, Raspbian lite has got that covered, will ubuntu further strip down a debian or where do they think they want to improve for IoT? 4.Community projects I support LoCo teams, UbuCons and other events, upstream projects and all the good work the community does. - well I'm afraid the money will mostly go into t-shirts and beer conferences. If you guarantee the money goes to upstream projects I'm down for that option at least. 5.Tip to Canonical - Hats off for making Ubuntu possible. Keep it up. - Well yeah, but what does that mean considering from the other options(convergence, cloud, iot) does a tip mean I endorse this new path instead of desktop focus? At least before they had some option about addressing driver incompatibilities.. Someone please help me/us choose.. I want to spend money for an open source OS for my desktop as to to not make me feel naked in front of Microsoft employees when I browse the internet.
Shorel 10y ago
> Something like elementary.io, without the installation errors Or with toolbars in the apps. Or with context menus on the video player. Or with a decent dock that doesn't show three Chrome buttons if you choose to not use their crippled browser. Yeah, I have also tried elementary.io.

by tajen 10y ago

Skunkleton 10y ago

If you are careful with your hardware selection, #3 is totally doable. For example my work PC (Xeon E5-1650, nVidia Quadro K2000) has had absolutely no compatibility or stability issues. I had the exact opposite experience trying to install Linux on my macbook pro. I have heard good things about the Dell XPS (the one that comes in a 'developer' edition). You also might try virtualization. With paravirtualized drivers, and VT-x support in the CPU, you run at near native speeds, and it is all very stable.

gshulegaard 10y ago
Word of warning, The XPS DE is definitely _not_ perfect. When I got my XPS 13 DE last year they had a multitude of issues I could go on and on about, but the bottom line is that the laptop was completely unusable out of the box. Part of the issue is that the Sputnik team has to take the XPS 13 hardware as is (as it was designed for Windows) and try to support it. They are releasing the drivers upstream (at least they were when I last checked) so that's awesome! But it meant I had crazy stability issues until the 3.19 kernel release. The newer models of the XPS 13 DE seem to have better hardware for linux (Intel vs. Broadcom wireless for example) so it may be better, but I would still encourage anyone looking at the Sputnik projects to consider the Precision M3800 instead (15" workstation version of the XPS 13). There are also some other Dell workstations available now that might have better hardware for Linux. Edit: Also I have owned a couple of System76 laptops and have had 0 issues with them out of the box. But their drivers are proprietary (AFAIK) and their chassis are Clevo...so definitely not in the same ballpark as the XPS when it comes to build quality.

semisight 10y ago

For 3., I've been interested in the same. How would it work though? Would it include non-free components, or be open source? If it's open source, why would the majority of people pay? I say this as someone who would definitely pay. I'd love to see something like an XPS developer edition, but with a (relatively) coherent graphics paradigm like OS X.

tajen 10y ago
> If it's open source, why would the majority of people pay? We could have paid access to the repositories. Yes anyone can redistribute it, but it's cumbersome and it gives you a delay for the bugfixes, so people with the ability to pay will prefer the official method. Especially if they know they're funding open-source and if they get a good service. However, to stay legit in the OSS ecosystem we need to redistribute part of the donations.

takno 10y ago

This isn't a press release, it's a review

Frondo 10y ago

On #3, I'll just plug Mageia again. I use the KDE version (I know, I know, you didn't want to know) since 2011, and it's the only linux I've ever used that "just works". I've had it on several laptops and a desktop, and haven't once touched a config file by hand. I've more or less forgotten all of my old Linux hand-editing juju. They're the community-driven spinoff from Mandriva, and they're the only Linux I'd recommend to anyone anymore: https://www.mageia.org/ https://www.mageia.org/

teekert 10y ago

You don't have to pay anyone for something that just works, take that 200$/yr and pay it to yourself as you investigate if your hardware is well supported by Linux. Alternatively, go for System76 or Entroware hardware. That hardware ships with Linux.

blackoil 10y ago
This assumes the time taken and effort will be worth less then 200 dollars, which may not be true for all.
mwfunk 10y ago
Time is money- plenty of people would trade $200 for not having to spend time doing that. That's the sort of thing that's really fun and cool and interesting if someone's a hobbyist and/or student and/or in the larval hacker stage, but at some point in life after spending decades having to make sure their hardware is supported by Linux/FreeBSD/whatever, the bloom can come off that rose pretty hard and it's a blessing to just give someone money to worry about something you don't want (or don't have the time) to spend time doing. Of course, plenty of people do have plenty of time to read HOWTOs and hardware compatibility lists and so on and still enjoy doing so- more power to them. Especially if $200 (or whatever) is still a meaningful amount of money to them that they need for other things. But I've always felt that a big reason why so many people advocate that approach and present it as a rational choice is because they themselves enjoy doing that and would do it anyway regardless of the time/money tradeoff.
- willholloway 10y ago
  I don't think Linux has that much of a hardware compatibility problem these days. I've built several intel PCs over the last few years without ever researching hardware compatibility and every one Just Worked with a basic Ubuntu install. Integrated wifi, and even AMD graphics cards are supported out of the box.
  - dagw 10y ago
    Home built PCs are generally not a problem since they all use common, fairly generic, parts. Laptops on the other hand tend to rely more on custom hardware and solutions.

willholloway 10y ago

Just buy a Macbook Air and install Ubuntu on it. It will Just Work. Wifi, screen brightness buttons, volume buttons, suspend on lid close... everything will Just Work.

ino 10y ago
How does the trackpad feel? How's the battery life?
- willholloway 10y ago
  Trackpad is great, battery life probably a bit less than os x, Im using a mid 2012 and get 3 hours, want to upgrade to the next model with the 9-12 hour life.
  - jsli 10y ago
    Em...that's just half of what OS X can do. I have the same model, but my laptop can last at least 7hours in a coffee shop.
    - willholloway 10y ago
      This is the 11" mid 2012, 13" has larger battery -- I was lucky to get 4 hours with os x when I first bought the machine, the battery is now 4 years old and gives me 2:30-3 hours under latest Ubuntu.
_lce0 10y ago
This! but YMMV, here's my journey so far... Using Ubuntu on a 2016 MBP Retina 15" 1. First 14.x: mostly functional, trackpad was buggy. Brightness wont work. No Bluetooth. Blame on kernel 3.x 2. Then 15.x: almost functional! mostly everything worked great wth kernel 4.x, but no bluetooth nor camera. That's ok, I can live without that 3. Now 16.10: almost perfect. Bluetooth works again. Still no camera, but I have trust it will soonish :) Also the machine never shutdown nor suspend correctly. I need to restart the machine, press ESC, write "exit" at grub, and then pick "poweroff" form the UEFI menu. But even with all this drawbacks, I don't regret and full recommend to try this setup. This is the best hardware/software combo. And even the battery last more than 12 hours with linux!

rlpb 10y ago

Send your $200/yr to the free OS that comes the closest to "just works" for you, even if you don't use it. If everyone did that, our free OSes would be far better than any other alternative.

tajen 10y ago
"If everyone did that", yes, but everyone isn't. That's where marketing is important. I wish Elementary.io were a fully-assumed for-profit able to trigger a snowball effect of customers around a Mac-level quality. Especially as Mac OS X quality is decreasing.
balamaci 10y ago
It's hard to decide to give them something with this list of options - really what can you choose here http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute/?version=16.04&architecture=amd64 http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute/?version=1... the alternatives are: 1. Ubuntu for personal and mobile computing - I want convergence now! - really? I'm just afraid it will push the desktop version to suck more like Unity. 2. Ubuntu for cloud computing - I want Ubuntu running my cloud and as a guest in my cloud of choice. - well I'd rather have Ubuntu be my desktop choice and have them more focused on that. 3.Ubuntu for things - I want a secure, upgradeable Internet of Things, powered by Ubuntu. - Well, Raspbian lite has got that covered, will ubuntu further strip down a debian or where do they think they want to improve for IoT? 4.Community projects I support LoCo teams, UbuCons and other events, upstream projects and all the good work the community does. - well I'm afraid the money will mostly go into t-shirts and beer conferences. If you guarantee the money goes to upstream projects I'm down for that option at least. 5.Tip to Canonical - Hats off for making Ubuntu possible. Keep it up. - Well yeah, but what does that mean considering from the other options(convergence, cloud, iot) does a tip mean I endorse this new path instead of desktop focus? At least before they had some option about addressing driver incompatibilities.. Someone please help me/us choose.. I want to spend money for an open source OS for my desktop as to to not make me feel naked in front of Microsoft employees when I browse the internet.

Shorel 10y ago

> Something like elementary.io, without the installation errors Or with toolbars in the apps. Or with context menus on the video player. Or with a decent dock that doesn't show three Chrome buttons if you choose to not use their crippled browser. Yeah, I have also tried elementary.io.