6 ms·

Doom on GLium, in Rust

149 points by hansjorg 10y ago

cm3 10y ago
Right after slide 1 appearing, this redirects to https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 for me in Firefox.
- Sarkie 10y ago
  Fine for me?
  - cm3 10y ago
    It works in an unrestricted Chrome instance. I wonder if there's a Google docs downloader script that directly gives me the PDF without dealing with the wonky website.
    - kermire 10y ago
      It's right under the document, here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1nFUlmouaR55Xt235aHyLPf9U/export/pdf?id=1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1nFUlmouaR55Xt235aHyLPf9U https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1n...
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      <rant> Google, take your browser team of the loony pills for FIVE SECONDS! Chrome isn't the only browser in the world. Having your website crash and burn one one of the most popular browsers out there that isn't yours is beyond unacceptable. Especially if you push web standards and make recommendations to other developers and sites to make their sites support all browsers. </rant>
devishard 10y ago
God, Google Docs is really horrible for non-documents. They literally just scroll me way too fast through content when I try to go to the next slide, and worse, they hack my back button so that each slide is a new page, meaning I basically have to open a new tab. It's also bad for images; for some reason they thought the scroll wheel should zoom in and out instead of scroll, and the only way to scroll is to click and drag. It's like their UI devs are on crack.
- bitmapbrother 10y ago
  I don't have this issue in Chrome, but you can always use the arrow keys if your mouse is having issues. As for the back button - works fine for me and takes me to the previous slide. You can even download it as a PDF or Powerpoint if you like.
  - debaserab2 10y ago
    Ugh, the last thing I want is for my browser back button to be hijacked by a slideshow presentation. Help, I'm stuck in a powerpoint.
    - tracker1 10y ago
      If you think of each slide as a separate page, as some do, it makes sense.
      - debaserab2 10y ago
        I just wish there was a way to opt-in to it first. My instinct when I hit the site was to use my mousewheel to scroll down, because I didn't immediately realize it was a slide deck. So my mousewheel advanced the deck about a dozen slides and wrecked my back button.
      - devishard 10y ago
        If you think of each slide as a separate page, then having your scroll wheel jump you to a different page doesn't make sense.
  - gpm 10y ago
    I have the same behavior of you, except I use Firefox... maybe it's just random what you get?
  - devishard 10y ago
    > I don't have this issue in Chrome, but you can always use the arrow keys if your mouse is having issues. Are you seriously suggesting that a workaround is just as good as having a good UI? > As for the back button - works fine for me and takes me to the previous slide. So after I scroll down and literally go through the entire slideshow with a small wave of the hand, I have to click back how many times to get back to hacker news?
vvanders 10y ago
+1 on glium as I've previously mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11620852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11620852 As someone who spends a lot of time in OpenGL it's a really solid, rusty API that's quite a joy to work with.
hansjorg 10y ago
There's more info and links in the speaker notes (on the options menu).
outworlder 10y ago
Are my perceptions clouded from being inside the Hacker News echo chamber, or is Rust really picking up steam really fast? It seems to have more libraries and the ones it has are more advanced than what would be expected from a language this young.
- swah 10y ago
  http://arewewebyet.com/ http://arewewebyet.com/ I always look for a SQL driver, and then if it has connection pool support. If a language passes this second test, the language is ready ;)
  - killercup 10y ago
    So, rust is ready? There are multiple database drivers and there is at least one crate for connection pools (r2d2) that also works with diesel (query builder).
  - politician 10y ago
    Don't forget support for transactions! That's often missing too.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I really hate all the "let's port everything to <fancy new language>" whenever a security issue comes out. That being said, the Rust community has done a lot of amazing work. There are people who are not just talking shit, but actually making attempts to port or rewrite some major things in rust. I was thinking about using it for a project recently, but I found the GTK documentation to still be lacking. Documentation is the biggest factor is language survival. I hated Python around 2002/2003, but today the documentation is orders of magnitude betters. I really got into PHP back then thanks to its documentation, not realize how awful a language it was under the cover (although PHP7 seems to be making some huge strides to get it away from whale-guts status: an actual AST, name spaces, things that are slightly more sane). So long as they're more tutorials, stackoverflow questions and library projects for Rust, it will grow. I have pretty high hopes for it being a major language for embedded systems. Who knows, maybe in five years we'll have production read Rust based kernels that can run existing docker containers.
xvilka 10y ago
Same user (tomaka) also wrote Rust bindings for Vulcan API - vulcano[1], which obviously can be used for creating modern games. [1] https://github.com/tomaka/vulkano https://github.com/tomaka/vulkano
alex_duf 10y ago
I don't get why slides are popular. We're missing 50% of the actual content of the talk here.
- lockyc 10y ago
  I agree, but this one has the speaker notes
Keyframe 10y ago
It says "Glium: Multi-threading... Send + Sync + Context Management (means it can be done)". Can someone explain a bit about this? I'm not familiar with Rust, but with C you have to run GL calls from one and the same thread or you're gonna have a bad day. Bonus question: Anyone that was/is C programmer (not C++) with opinions on Rust?
- vvanders 10y ago
  There's more details in the presenter notes: >I won’t get into much detail about threading, but imagine how the OpenGL skynet-state-machine interacts with multiple threads. GLium ensures only a thread-specific OpenGL context is used on any particular thread. >By making everything neither Send nor Sync, it prevents you from using resources created by one thread in another, enforcing OpenGL semantics at compile-time. Basically any type without Send+Sync traits will not work with existing threading APIs(since they require combinations of Send+Sync based on threading semantics) forcing API calls to be done on the right thread.
  - Keyframe 10y ago
    Thanks! I was in presentation mode, for some reason, and didn't see the notes.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 10y ago
  I've written a bunch of C++ (and abhor it) though my primary experiences are with C and Objective-C and Rust is a fantastic language. It definitely has a learning curve, and writing code in Rust takes me a good bit longer than C/ObjC but when I'm done I'm confident I wrote the code I think I wrote* Rust tackles all the things that are hardest about programming: Correctness, threading and memory management, and validates that you've done it right at compile time. Think of it as an extensive suite of compile-time unit tests. Definitely forces you to think differently though. Nice side-benefit is that I learned Swift way, way faster (and IMO more idiomatically) than if I'd gone direct from ObjC->Swift. *: Not that it's right, just that it's what I intended.

149 points by hansjorg 10y ago

cm3 10y ago

Right after slide 1 appearing, this redirects to https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050 for me in Firefox.

Sarkie 10y ago
Fine for me?
- cm3 10y ago
  It works in an unrestricted Chrome instance. I wonder if there's a Google docs downloader script that directly gives me the PDF without dealing with the wonky website.
  - kermire 10y ago
    It's right under the document, here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1nFUlmouaR55Xt235aHyLPf9U/export/pdf?id=1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1nFUlmouaR55Xt235aHyLPf9U https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TjWba0CR9RHFm47rvW1n...
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    <rant> Google, take your browser team of the loony pills for FIVE SECONDS! Chrome isn't the only browser in the world. Having your website crash and burn one one of the most popular browsers out there that isn't yours is beyond unacceptable. Especially if you push web standards and make recommendations to other developers and sites to make their sites support all browsers. </rant>

devishard 10y ago

God, Google Docs is really horrible for non-documents. They literally just scroll me way too fast through content when I try to go to the next slide, and worse, they hack my back button so that each slide is a new page, meaning I basically have to open a new tab. It's also bad for images; for some reason they thought the scroll wheel should zoom in and out instead of scroll, and the only way to scroll is to click and drag. It's like their UI devs are on crack.

bitmapbrother 10y ago
I don't have this issue in Chrome, but you can always use the arrow keys if your mouse is having issues. As for the back button - works fine for me and takes me to the previous slide. You can even download it as a PDF or Powerpoint if you like.
- debaserab2 10y ago
  Ugh, the last thing I want is for my browser back button to be hijacked by a slideshow presentation. Help, I'm stuck in a powerpoint.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    If you think of each slide as a separate page, as some do, it makes sense.
    - debaserab2 10y ago
      I just wish there was a way to opt-in to it first. My instinct when I hit the site was to use my mousewheel to scroll down, because I didn't immediately realize it was a slide deck. So my mousewheel advanced the deck about a dozen slides and wrecked my back button.
    - devishard 10y ago
      If you think of each slide as a separate page, then having your scroll wheel jump you to a different page doesn't make sense.
- gpm 10y ago
  I have the same behavior of you, except I use Firefox... maybe it's just random what you get?
- devishard 10y ago
  > I don't have this issue in Chrome, but you can always use the arrow keys if your mouse is having issues. Are you seriously suggesting that a workaround is just as good as having a good UI? > As for the back button - works fine for me and takes me to the previous slide. So after I scroll down and literally go through the entire slideshow with a small wave of the hand, I have to click back how many times to get back to hacker news?

vvanders 10y ago

+1 on glium as I've previously mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11620852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11620852 As someone who spends a lot of time in OpenGL it's a really solid, rusty API that's quite a joy to work with.

hansjorg 10y ago

There's more info and links in the speaker notes (on the options menu).

outworlder 10y ago

Are my perceptions clouded from being inside the Hacker News echo chamber, or is Rust really picking up steam really fast? It seems to have more libraries and the ones it has are more advanced than what would be expected from a language this young.

swah 10y ago
http://arewewebyet.com/ http://arewewebyet.com/ I always look for a SQL driver, and then if it has connection pool support. If a language passes this second test, the language is ready ;)
- killercup 10y ago
  So, rust is ready? There are multiple database drivers and there is at least one crate for connection pools (r2d2) that also works with diesel (query builder).
- politician 10y ago
  Don't forget support for transactions! That's often missing too.
djsumdog 10y ago
I really hate all the "let's port everything to <fancy new language>" whenever a security issue comes out. That being said, the Rust community has done a lot of amazing work. There are people who are not just talking shit, but actually making attempts to port or rewrite some major things in rust. I was thinking about using it for a project recently, but I found the GTK documentation to still be lacking. Documentation is the biggest factor is language survival. I hated Python around 2002/2003, but today the documentation is orders of magnitude betters. I really got into PHP back then thanks to its documentation, not realize how awful a language it was under the cover (although PHP7 seems to be making some huge strides to get it away from whale-guts status: an actual AST, name spaces, things that are slightly more sane). So long as they're more tutorials, stackoverflow questions and library projects for Rust, it will grow. I have pretty high hopes for it being a major language for embedded systems. Who knows, maybe in five years we'll have production read Rust based kernels that can run existing docker containers.

xvilka 10y ago

Same user (tomaka) also wrote Rust bindings for Vulcan API - vulcano[1], which obviously can be used for creating modern games. [1] https://github.com/tomaka/vulkano https://github.com/tomaka/vulkano

alex_duf 10y ago

I don't get why slides are popular. We're missing 50% of the actual content of the talk here.

lockyc 10y ago
I agree, but this one has the speaker notes

Keyframe 10y ago

It says "Glium: Multi-threading... Send + Sync + Context Management (means it can be done)". Can someone explain a bit about this? I'm not familiar with Rust, but with C you have to run GL calls from one and the same thread or you're gonna have a bad day. Bonus question: Anyone that was/is C programmer (not C++) with opinions on Rust?

vvanders 10y ago
There's more details in the presenter notes: >I won’t get into much detail about threading, but imagine how the OpenGL skynet-state-machine interacts with multiple threads. GLium ensures only a thread-specific OpenGL context is used on any particular thread. >By making everything neither Send nor Sync, it prevents you from using resources created by one thread in another, enforcing OpenGL semantics at compile-time. Basically any type without Send+Sync traits will not work with existing threading APIs(since they require combinations of Send+Sync based on threading semantics) forcing API calls to be done on the right thread.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  Thanks! I was in presentation mode, for some reason, and didn't see the notes.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
arcticbull 10y ago
I've written a bunch of C++ (and abhor it) though my primary experiences are with C and Objective-C and Rust is a fantastic language. It definitely has a learning curve, and writing code in Rust takes me a good bit longer than C/ObjC but when I'm done I'm confident I wrote the code I think I wrote* Rust tackles all the things that are hardest about programming: Correctness, threading and memory management, and validates that you've done it right at compile time. Think of it as an extensive suite of compile-time unit tests. Definitely forces you to think differently though. Nice side-benefit is that I learned Swift way, way faster (and IMO more idiomatically) than if I'd gone direct from ObjC->Swift. *: Not that it's right, just that it's what I intended.