28 ms·

That's the hope. A little outside my field but current compressed sensing in MRI research is looking at reduction factors of about 2-8 (typically 2, 4, or 8 fro

by smitec 10y ago

That's the hope. A little outside my field but current compressed sensing in MRI research is looking at reduction factors of about 2-8 (typically 2, 4, or 8 from tradition) in compressed sensing. This is still pretty rare in commercial machines though. Some sequences such as EPI [1] can get images very fast (200ms) with a trade off in spatial resolution. This is for things like cardiac imaging where low resolution images of the heard every 200ms are more useful than a single high resolution image. Also for moving parts of the body there is often blurring artefacts due to movement within the image window using longer sequence types. Unfortunately I think the biggest inhibitor of MRI being more common is still the price of a scan. Here in Australia it can be a few hundred dollars for a scan (and I understand it can be far more elsewhere). Again though if we had access to a cheaper option the idea of regular scans may not be too far off. I like to imagine a point in the future where the sci-fi full body diagnostic scanning is a reality. Still a lot of work to get there but it is certainly getting closer. [1] http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1 http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1

blackguardx 10y ago
When I had an MRI on my knee in 2009, my out of pocket expense was $1500. A few hundred dollars seems cheap to me. Just the doctor visit to get the MRI ordered cost me $200.
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  That price really doesn't make a lot of sense. I find it hard to believe that it bears any meaningful relationship to the cost of the MRI machine or the cost of running it or analysing the results. After all such an MRI takes only a few minutes of machine time. Let's be generous and say it takes an hour and that it is in use for only 10 hours a day 20 days a month. That means it turns over 300kUSD per month, 3.6MUSD per year. You can probably buy one that would do the job for less than 500kUSD; see http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/92623/MRI-Machine-Cost-and-Price-Guide http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/92623/MRI-Machine-Cost-and-....
  - makomk 10y ago
    I think insurers have caught on nowadays, but MRI scanning used to be a major profit center for US hospitals because the cost of the machines had gone down but their prices kept going up. Probably still is if you have to pay list price.
JulianRaphael 10y ago
Thank you for all this interesting information! With your knowledge, would you consider MRI R&D to be as open for disruption like space technology was until a few years ago? Do you think the same reductions in cost can be achieved by a group of similarly insanely smart people like those at SpaceX?
- smitec 10y ago
  You're welcome, not often that MRI related posts come up so it is nice to share this side of what I do. I think certainly there is room for it and I know there have been some recent entrants into the field which consider themselves MRI R&D. Up to this point though they are mostly bring quite secretive about what they are working on. I think though with the right funding and some smart cash behind a team that knows the space there is room to make big changes and drive price down competitively. One example of a team in this space is Magnetica [1] who are working on smaller (physically) MRI systems for extremity imaging. (I know them through the university and my supervisor is CTO but I have no personal stake in the company otherwise) There is 'the' MRI conference on this week in Singapore (ISMRM for those interested) which may result in some MRI related press in the coming days. Not sure where to look for it though as unfortunately the conference content is member only at this point. [1]: http://magnetica.com/ http://magnetica.com/
  - JulianRaphael 10y ago
    Great answer, thank you. I find MRI related posts one of the most exciting - there is so much potential in the technology, especially as medicine moves from treatment of symptoms to prevention more and more. If there would only be more people working on this instead of social media apps... I find it interesting to see that the trend in this space seems to move towards small MRI units. Do you know of similarly innovative companies that work on full-body MRI machines? For me, the perfect business case (esp. in a country with a public health system) is having regular, accurate full-body scans that are checked by software for tissue changes. Early detection of some of the most deadly diseases would save insurances a tremendous amount of money and human beings from unquantifiable suffering. Are there any publications / blogs that you would recommend to stay up to date with MRI technology?
Brakenshire 10y ago
Hopefully speeding up image acquisition will also bring down cost. If you can reduce the acquisition time by a factor of 4, you should be able to make the scans at least 2 times less expensive, with correct management of the queue.
- jrowley 10y ago
  Acquisition is one cost but paying an expert radiologist to actually read the scan is another cost entirely. Decreased cost may increase use in cases where it's not necessary, which could reduce the mean throughput of the system.

by smitec 10y ago

blackguardx 10y ago

When I had an MRI on my knee in 2009, my out of pocket expense was $1500. A few hundred dollars seems cheap to me. Just the doctor visit to get the MRI ordered cost me $200.

kwhitefoot 10y ago
That price really doesn't make a lot of sense. I find it hard to believe that it bears any meaningful relationship to the cost of the MRI machine or the cost of running it or analysing the results. After all such an MRI takes only a few minutes of machine time. Let's be generous and say it takes an hour and that it is in use for only 10 hours a day 20 days a month. That means it turns over 300kUSD per month, 3.6MUSD per year. You can probably buy one that would do the job for less than 500kUSD; see http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/92623/MRI-Machine-Cost-and-Price-Guide http://info.blockimaging.com/bid/92623/MRI-Machine-Cost-and-....
- makomk 10y ago
  I think insurers have caught on nowadays, but MRI scanning used to be a major profit center for US hospitals because the cost of the machines had gone down but their prices kept going up. Probably still is if you have to pay list price.

JulianRaphael 10y ago

Thank you for all this interesting information! With your knowledge, would you consider MRI R&D to be as open for disruption like space technology was until a few years ago? Do you think the same reductions in cost can be achieved by a group of similarly insanely smart people like those at SpaceX?

smitec 10y ago
You're welcome, not often that MRI related posts come up so it is nice to share this side of what I do. I think certainly there is room for it and I know there have been some recent entrants into the field which consider themselves MRI R&D. Up to this point though they are mostly bring quite secretive about what they are working on. I think though with the right funding and some smart cash behind a team that knows the space there is room to make big changes and drive price down competitively. One example of a team in this space is Magnetica [1] who are working on smaller (physically) MRI systems for extremity imaging. (I know them through the university and my supervisor is CTO but I have no personal stake in the company otherwise) There is 'the' MRI conference on this week in Singapore (ISMRM for those interested) which may result in some MRI related press in the coming days. Not sure where to look for it though as unfortunately the conference content is member only at this point. [1]: http://magnetica.com/ http://magnetica.com/
- JulianRaphael 10y ago
  Great answer, thank you. I find MRI related posts one of the most exciting - there is so much potential in the technology, especially as medicine moves from treatment of symptoms to prevention more and more. If there would only be more people working on this instead of social media apps... I find it interesting to see that the trend in this space seems to move towards small MRI units. Do you know of similarly innovative companies that work on full-body MRI machines? For me, the perfect business case (esp. in a country with a public health system) is having regular, accurate full-body scans that are checked by software for tissue changes. Early detection of some of the most deadly diseases would save insurances a tremendous amount of money and human beings from unquantifiable suffering. Are there any publications / blogs that you would recommend to stay up to date with MRI technology?

Brakenshire 10y ago

Hopefully speeding up image acquisition will also bring down cost. If you can reduce the acquisition time by a factor of 4, you should be able to make the scans at least 2 times less expensive, with correct management of the queue.

jrowley 10y ago
Acquisition is one cost but paying an expert radiologist to actually read the scan is another cost entirely. Decreased cost may increase use in cases where it's not necessary, which could reduce the mean throughput of the system.