5 ms·

there's nothing morally wrong with avoiding taxation if you have no sense of community

rfrey 10y ago
But if I deduct my tuition fees (which I can do in Canada, where I am), I am avoiding taxation. Also if I deduct the money I donate to the Red Cross. So we have to be specific about which ways of "avoiding taxation" are wrong and which ways are not morally wrong. As far as I know, we call that "tax law".
- forgotmysn 10y ago
  filing appropriately =/ hiding funds that the law states should be taxed. deducting tuition is filing honestly. investing funds into a corporate entity and then having that entity issue you a loan, though legal, is immoral. it's hoarding funds at the expense of the community. im not saying that people should or shouldnt pay taxes on X or Y income, or that our current tax system is perfect, but i dont think the moral line here is as hard to draw as you're trying to make it
  - rfrey 10y ago
    "that the law states should be taxed" "though legal, is immoral" There is the problem... the law is an expression of what is acceptable. If we start saying "though legal, immoral", then things become far too discretionary. Instead of something obvious, like tuition, let's say I deduct donations to a registered charity that gets accused of financing terrorism. Should I be prosecuted for avoiding tax in a legal though immoral way? Some people would say giving all one's money to a church, and deducting those donations, is an immoral avoidance of tax. All we have to go on is the expression of the community's moral taste through the law.
    - forgotmysn 10y ago
      No. They wouldn't. You keep trying to equate tax exemption with tax avoidance, and you're still wrong for doing so. A Church is a community organization, and is exclusively community-funded. Asking not to be taxed on income donated to any community focused org is reasonable in anyone's eyes. I don't think anyone is going to worry about taxation if the org you donate to goes on to fund a terrorist attack or organization. There is a difference between requesting exemption from taxation on income that is donated to community orgs, because ultimately that money goes back to the community, whether through taxation or philanthropy. Creating a shell corporation in the Cayman Islands, with an anonymous board of directors based in Switzerland, and dumping all of your liquid assets into said fund, which then purchases all of your non-liquid assets, is clearly tax evasion. What you seem to fail to comprehend is where the money ends up and why. Whether money is taxed or donated, it goes back to the community, where everyone should give a portion of their income to. Hiding it, legally or illegally, to keep that money for yourself, is immoral and will hopefully be made illegal.
Randgalt 10y ago
So, complying with the law means you have no sense of community?
- ethanbond 10y ago
  That's not really how logic works. Lame straw man.
- forgotmysn 10y ago
  Sad to say, but that can be the case. Corporations and Industry groups lobby for exemptions and loopholes all the time, which is how we get to where we are today. Just because a law is, doesn't mean that law is just. There are times when complying with the law negatively impacts a community, re: judges complying with mandatory sentencing.

rfrey 10y ago

But if I deduct my tuition fees (which I can do in Canada, where I am), I am avoiding taxation. Also if I deduct the money I donate to the Red Cross. So we have to be specific about which ways of "avoiding taxation" are wrong and which ways are not morally wrong. As far as I know, we call that "tax law".

forgotmysn 10y ago
filing appropriately =/ hiding funds that the law states should be taxed. deducting tuition is filing honestly. investing funds into a corporate entity and then having that entity issue you a loan, though legal, is immoral. it's hoarding funds at the expense of the community. im not saying that people should or shouldnt pay taxes on X or Y income, or that our current tax system is perfect, but i dont think the moral line here is as hard to draw as you're trying to make it
- rfrey 10y ago
  "that the law states should be taxed" "though legal, is immoral" There is the problem... the law is an expression of what is acceptable. If we start saying "though legal, immoral", then things become far too discretionary. Instead of something obvious, like tuition, let's say I deduct donations to a registered charity that gets accused of financing terrorism. Should I be prosecuted for avoiding tax in a legal though immoral way? Some people would say giving all one's money to a church, and deducting those donations, is an immoral avoidance of tax. All we have to go on is the expression of the community's moral taste through the law.
  - forgotmysn 10y ago
    No. They wouldn't. You keep trying to equate tax exemption with tax avoidance, and you're still wrong for doing so. A Church is a community organization, and is exclusively community-funded. Asking not to be taxed on income donated to any community focused org is reasonable in anyone's eyes. I don't think anyone is going to worry about taxation if the org you donate to goes on to fund a terrorist attack or organization. There is a difference between requesting exemption from taxation on income that is donated to community orgs, because ultimately that money goes back to the community, whether through taxation or philanthropy. Creating a shell corporation in the Cayman Islands, with an anonymous board of directors based in Switzerland, and dumping all of your liquid assets into said fund, which then purchases all of your non-liquid assets, is clearly tax evasion. What you seem to fail to comprehend is where the money ends up and why. Whether money is taxed or donated, it goes back to the community, where everyone should give a portion of their income to. Hiding it, legally or illegally, to keep that money for yourself, is immoral and will hopefully be made illegal.

Randgalt 10y ago

So, complying with the law means you have no sense of community?

ethanbond 10y ago
That's not really how logic works. Lame straw man.
forgotmysn 10y ago
Sad to say, but that can be the case. Corporations and Industry groups lobby for exemptions and loopholes all the time, which is how we get to where we are today. Just because a law is, doesn't mean that law is just. There are times when complying with the law negatively impacts a community, re: judges complying with mandatory sentencing.