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I don't think you could get that to fly politically. While it is true that drugs require high prices to recoup research cost and that drug patents allow drug c

I don't think you could get that to fly politically. While it is true that drugs require high prices to recoup research cost and that drug patents allow drug companies to charge those high prices, they don't just recoup prices. They charge as much as they can. From the point of view of trying to save as many people as possible for the money, that sucks, but from the point of view of encouraging investment in drug companies it is seen as a necessary evil. I won't try to rehash all of the permutations of ways that might work (just search HN for any discussion of drug companies and patents and you will be able to enumerate them). I suspect that there are ways to improve the present system substantially, but I concede that the problem is much harder than I can solve. Hopefully someone will be able to do it some day.

lucaspiller 11y ago
> They charge as much as they can How does it work in European countries where health care is (mostly) paid for by the government? Do these companies still charge the same prices as in the US?
- airless_bar 11y ago
  Of course not.
- te_chris 11y ago
  Back in NZ, we have PHARMAC, which is basically a centralised drug buyer for the country. It works remarkably well at keeping drug prices low https://www.pharmac.govt.nz/ https://www.pharmac.govt.nz/ - though tends to miss some niche stuff.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  The Australian Federal government has a Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, and U.S. pharmaceutical companies have been trying to undermine it for years. Sadly for these companies, and fortunate for the vast majority of Australians, it is so popular and successful that any attempt to undermine it puts the government at risk of being turfed out in the next general election. The Abbott government tried to force through a hair-brained GP co-payment and it was so unpopular that even when it was scrapped they eventually had to replace the Treasurer and Prime Minister for fear of being routed in the next general election.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > Do these companies still charge the same prices as in the US? The majority of global R&D happens in the US market, even though the entire world benefits from it. So pharmaceutical companies have come to expect to recoup their R&D costs from the US market. Ultimately, this means that European markets benefit from the research without having to shoulder the bulk of the costs from it. If they couldn't do that here, then yes, they might adjust their business models and try and charge more in Europe and India. But as mentioned above, India doesn't recognize patents, and since the R&D isn't taking place in Europe, there's less of a need to charge the same prices there. And because there isn't one single European market, its more complicated to price drugs there in such a way as to reliably turn a profit (after accounting for R&D) in each individual country than it is in the US, where insurance players are licensed by state but the pharmaceutical market is otherwise roughly uniform across all 50 states.
  - airless_bar 11y ago
    This is utter non-sense. Companies charge as much as they can, they don't follow some altruistic "we love Europe" plan. I understand your point though: Of course it's easier to bask in American exceptionalism than facing the truth that corporations rule the US and the only human value they are interested in is the amount of dollars extractable through any means imaginable.
    - chimeracoder 11y ago
      > some altruistic "we love Europe" plan. Nobody said anything about altruism, or 'loving Europe'. I don't know where you're getting either of those ideas from. > Of course it's easier to bask in American exceptionalism This is hardly a claim of American exceptionalism. It's a non-normative observation about the existing structure of the markets. It is not a statement that this is how it always must be, or that this is how it should be. It is merely a description of what currently is.
      - airless_bar 11y ago
        Wrong.

lucaspiller 11y ago

> They charge as much as they can How does it work in European countries where health care is (mostly) paid for by the government? Do these companies still charge the same prices as in the US?

airless_bar 11y ago
Of course not.
te_chris 11y ago
Back in NZ, we have PHARMAC, which is basically a centralised drug buyer for the country. It works remarkably well at keeping drug prices low https://www.pharmac.govt.nz/ https://www.pharmac.govt.nz/ - though tends to miss some niche stuff.
chris_wot 11y ago
The Australian Federal government has a Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, and U.S. pharmaceutical companies have been trying to undermine it for years. Sadly for these companies, and fortunate for the vast majority of Australians, it is so popular and successful that any attempt to undermine it puts the government at risk of being turfed out in the next general election. The Abbott government tried to force through a hair-brained GP co-payment and it was so unpopular that even when it was scrapped they eventually had to replace the Treasurer and Prime Minister for fear of being routed in the next general election.
chimeracoder 11y ago
> Do these companies still charge the same prices as in the US? The majority of global R&D happens in the US market, even though the entire world benefits from it. So pharmaceutical companies have come to expect to recoup their R&D costs from the US market. Ultimately, this means that European markets benefit from the research without having to shoulder the bulk of the costs from it. If they couldn't do that here, then yes, they might adjust their business models and try and charge more in Europe and India. But as mentioned above, India doesn't recognize patents, and since the R&D isn't taking place in Europe, there's less of a need to charge the same prices there. And because there isn't one single European market, its more complicated to price drugs there in such a way as to reliably turn a profit (after accounting for R&D) in each individual country than it is in the US, where insurance players are licensed by state but the pharmaceutical market is otherwise roughly uniform across all 50 states.
- airless_bar 11y ago
  This is utter non-sense. Companies charge as much as they can, they don't follow some altruistic "we love Europe" plan. I understand your point though: Of course it's easier to bask in American exceptionalism than facing the truth that corporations rule the US and the only human value they are interested in is the amount of dollars extractable through any means imaginable.
  - chimeracoder 11y ago
    > some altruistic "we love Europe" plan. Nobody said anything about altruism, or 'loving Europe'. I don't know where you're getting either of those ideas from. > Of course it's easier to bask in American exceptionalism This is hardly a claim of American exceptionalism. It's a non-normative observation about the existing structure of the markets. It is not a statement that this is how it always must be, or that this is how it should be. It is merely a description of what currently is.
    - airless_bar 11y ago
      Wrong.