5 ms·

This is yet another perverse collision of care and market regulation. Other examples abound. Why do we accept this? Do we even dare think of alternatives? What

by markvdb 10y ago

This is yet another perverse collision of care and market regulation. Other examples abound. Why do we accept this? Do we even dare think of alternatives? What if western governments stop enforcing drug development intellectual rights? Not going to happen before hell freezes over, but let's have a short thought experiment. Quality health care for all would probably blossom thanks to more access to affordable drugs than ever. Drug development would probably slow down significantly without compensating measures. But would that be so bad? Medical research is increasingly a game of diminishing returns... Many but the rarest disease puzzles have been solved already. And the huge profit margins show the current drug development system has proven inefficient handling these rare corner cases. Think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexion_Pharmaceuticals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexion_Pharmaceuticals . With more patents starting to expire, the existing drug development model will only get more inefficient... Aren't there more efficient ways to incentivise drug research? Crazy idea... Bootstrap an open source drug with maecenate and/or public funding, or market an existing generic with a sympathetic history. Make it super easy for people to donate something extra on top of the drug price. Think a tip at the pharmacy, directly to the researcher's drug development budget. Their drug cured them or their loved ones! Put a picture of the research team on the packaging. Show people these researchers are heroes.

adrianN 10y ago
I wouldn't call cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's, ageing etc "the rarest disease puzzles", yet I'm not satisfied with the status quo of medical care for these problems.
- airless_bar 10y ago
  Mainstream access to all existing drugs would still be a hugely more favorable outcome than the "chance" of new drugs at outrageous prices.
  - peyton 10y ago
    Don't we get cheap drugs when patents expire? Are you saying we should invalidate all existing drug patents today and cease R&D rather than wait for patents to expire?
    - bandrami 10y ago
      No, the manufacturers apply for a new patent for using the drug to treat a different condition, which still keeps generics out of the market.
      - refurb 10y ago
        With a few exceptions, that's pretty much untrue.
KaiserPro 10y ago
> What if western governments stop enforcing drug development intellectual rights? No new drugs. Pretty simple. Now you ask, is that a bad thing? well yes, yes it is. Right now, we are running out of (or have run out of) top end antibiotics. Partly from over use (I'm looking at you America.) mostly from using them to get much higher yields in farm animals (yup, thats right, last line antibiotics are being used on pigs, so they can be packed in much higher densities. ) So what I hear you say? Well TB thats what. There is a resurgence in TB, the white death. Now, you might be content with each lung collapsed in turn, in a vein attempt to cure it[1]. However I'm not. 1 in 3 people get cancer. The survival rates are not good. Loads of people are diabetic. (mainly because they eat shit and are fat(unless its type1 which is genetic)) Opensource model is just bollocks. I don't want to be treated by some drug thats only had patchy test coverage. I don't want to be beholden to some amateur who thought it'd be good to reinvent for the billions time penicillin. Who is going to pay for the time? its not like you can provide charge for support is it? No, the way forward is actually having a proper handle on insurance. Here in the UK, drugs are purchased nationally[2] but more importantly you only pay a nominal upfront fee. Its not more expensive, in fact its hovering around 6% of GDP compared to 18% for the US (and with much better care too) [1]http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/pdfaccess.ashx?ResourceID=2102478&PDFSource=13 http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/pdfaccess.ashx?Reso... [2]https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/5-infections/53-antiviral-drugs/533-viral-hepatitis/5332-chronic-hepatitis-c/sofosbuvir https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/5-infectio...
- phaemon 10y ago
  > No new drugs. Pretty simple. I doubt that. There's no reason why the same research couldn't be academic research. Global spending on drugs research is only $77 billion a year. Take the 20 richest countries in the world and that's less than $4 billion a year each. That's less than half the UK's EU rebate. (EDIT: not enough coffee to add correctly)
  - ChrisLTD 10y ago
    Bingo. The private profit motive isn't the only way to get things done. Two of the greatest scientific and engineering feats of the 20th century, the atom bomb and landing on the moon, were both government run and funded.
Mvandenbergh 10y ago
>Quality health care for all would probably blossom thanks to more access to affordable drugs than ever. Drug development would probably slow down significantly without compensating measures. But would that be so bad? Medical research is increasingly a game of diminishing returns... If that's true then this problem will resolve itself in a decade or so when these drugs go off patent.

by markvdb 10y ago

adrianN 10y ago

I wouldn't call cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's, ageing etc "the rarest disease puzzles", yet I'm not satisfied with the status quo of medical care for these problems.

airless_bar 10y ago
Mainstream access to all existing drugs would still be a hugely more favorable outcome than the "chance" of new drugs at outrageous prices.
- peyton 10y ago
  Don't we get cheap drugs when patents expire? Are you saying we should invalidate all existing drug patents today and cease R&D rather than wait for patents to expire?
  - bandrami 10y ago
    No, the manufacturers apply for a new patent for using the drug to treat a different condition, which still keeps generics out of the market.
    - refurb 10y ago
      With a few exceptions, that's pretty much untrue.

KaiserPro 10y ago

> What if western governments stop enforcing drug development intellectual rights? No new drugs. Pretty simple. Now you ask, is that a bad thing? well yes, yes it is. Right now, we are running out of (or have run out of) top end antibiotics. Partly from over use (I'm looking at you America.) mostly from using them to get much higher yields in farm animals (yup, thats right, last line antibiotics are being used on pigs, so they can be packed in much higher densities. ) So what I hear you say? Well TB thats what. There is a resurgence in TB, the white death. Now, you might be content with each lung collapsed in turn, in a vein attempt to cure it[1]. However I'm not. 1 in 3 people get cancer. The survival rates are not good. Loads of people are diabetic. (mainly because they eat shit and are fat(unless its type1 which is genetic)) Opensource model is just bollocks. I don't want to be treated by some drug thats only had patchy test coverage. I don't want to be beholden to some amateur who thought it'd be good to reinvent for the billions time penicillin. Who is going to pay for the time? its not like you can provide charge for support is it? No, the way forward is actually having a proper handle on insurance. Here in the UK, drugs are purchased nationally[2] but more importantly you only pay a nominal upfront fee. Its not more expensive, in fact its hovering around 6% of GDP compared to 18% for the US (and with much better care too) [1]http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/pdfaccess.ashx?ResourceID=2102478&PDFSource=13 http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/pdfaccess.ashx?Reso... [2]https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/5-infections/53-antiviral-drugs/533-viral-hepatitis/5332-chronic-hepatitis-c/sofosbuvir https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/5-infectio...

phaemon 10y ago
> No new drugs. Pretty simple. I doubt that. There's no reason why the same research couldn't be academic research. Global spending on drugs research is only $77 billion a year. Take the 20 richest countries in the world and that's less than $4 billion a year each. That's less than half the UK's EU rebate. (EDIT: not enough coffee to add correctly)
- ChrisLTD 10y ago
  Bingo. The private profit motive isn't the only way to get things done. Two of the greatest scientific and engineering feats of the 20th century, the atom bomb and landing on the moon, were both government run and funded.

Mvandenbergh 10y ago

>Quality health care for all would probably blossom thanks to more access to affordable drugs than ever. Drug development would probably slow down significantly without compensating measures. But would that be so bad? Medical research is increasingly a game of diminishing returns... If that's true then this problem will resolve itself in a decade or so when these drugs go off patent.