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Article is about rate adjusting, not packets. \Theory We can only perceive nature's algorithms after we've worked them out for ourselves, because we don't know

Article is about rate adjusting, not packets. \Theory We can only perceive nature's algorithms after we've worked them out for ourselves, because we don't know what to look for in the noise. Therefore, we are surrounded by incredibly clever algorithms, unbeknownst.

Someone 11y ago
Also, I would write by humans, not by ants. One could also have a deep philosophical discussion whether ants actually can discover anything (how much consciousness/ability to abstract/... is needed for that, and do ants posses it? Or maybe, do ants lack it, but ant colonies have it? Or is it DNA that discovered it using a genetic search algorithm?)
- EGreg 11y ago
  Have you heard of the China Brain thought experiment?
  - pacaro 11y ago
    I assume you are referring to Searle's "Chinese Room" [1] thought experiment [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
    - EGreg 11y ago
      No, China Brain. It is more analogous here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain
      - dTal 11y ago
        It's interesting that both "thought experiments" take essentially the same form - layer a fully working consciousness (defined either by being able to pass the Turing test or by actually emulating a brain on the physical level) onto a bizarre and improbable substrate that, strictly speaking, is too small to contain it; then gawp at the improbability of the arrangement you've constructed. Dennett has a good rebuttal to this whole class - he notes that is not at all intuitive that a brain should be conscious. Open up someone's skull and look at the pulsing meat, and try and convince yourself that there's a mental universe in there. You may as well say "it's just stupid atoms bumping around - how could that be conscious?" You either believe in a) supernatural souls, b) the mystical consciousness-granting power of meat, or c) minds are independent of their substrate.
        EGreg 11y ago
        I think a and c could be the same. Why not believe it?
        dTal 10y ago
        Yeah I thought that as I was typing it, but I was procrastinating and didn't have time to fully flesh it out so I hit submit anyway!
        Florin_Andrei 10y ago
        In 1899 the equations of relativity or quantum mechanics may have sounded quite "mystical" too. Lots of things sound incomprehensible, or fairy-tale-like, until you actually understand their intricacies.
teawrecks 11y ago
\Theory That's a hypothesis.
conceit 10y ago
We do embody a many of those algorithms. How does that Henn and Egg problem work out? I think you are right for the beginning of language learning and the rest is just synthesis and guesswork.
zappo2938 11y ago
Probably. However, more important, we are surrounded by incredibly clever medicine that we haven't discovered yet. When we tear down rain forests and diversity, those potential discovers are lost.
dharma1 11y ago
Since evolution has had a lot of time to optimise, and humans relatively little time to build the tooling and science to understand what's going on, I would assume there is a lot left to discover

Someone 11y ago

Also, I would write by humans, not by ants. One could also have a deep philosophical discussion whether ants actually can discover anything (how much consciousness/ability to abstract/... is needed for that, and do ants posses it? Or maybe, do ants lack it, but ant colonies have it? Or is it DNA that discovered it using a genetic search algorithm?)

EGreg 11y ago
Have you heard of the China Brain thought experiment?
- pacaro 11y ago
  I assume you are referring to Searle's "Chinese Room" [1] thought experiment [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
  - EGreg 11y ago
    No, China Brain. It is more analogous here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_brain
    - dTal 11y ago
      It's interesting that both "thought experiments" take essentially the same form - layer a fully working consciousness (defined either by being able to pass the Turing test or by actually emulating a brain on the physical level) onto a bizarre and improbable substrate that, strictly speaking, is too small to contain it; then gawp at the improbability of the arrangement you've constructed. Dennett has a good rebuttal to this whole class - he notes that is not at all intuitive that a brain should be conscious. Open up someone's skull and look at the pulsing meat, and try and convince yourself that there's a mental universe in there. You may as well say "it's just stupid atoms bumping around - how could that be conscious?" You either believe in a) supernatural souls, b) the mystical consciousness-granting power of meat, or c) minds are independent of their substrate.
      - EGreg 11y ago
        I think a and c could be the same. Why not believe it?
        dTal 10y ago
        Yeah I thought that as I was typing it, but I was procrastinating and didn't have time to fully flesh it out so I hit submit anyway!
      - Florin_Andrei 10y ago
        In 1899 the equations of relativity or quantum mechanics may have sounded quite "mystical" too. Lots of things sound incomprehensible, or fairy-tale-like, until you actually understand their intricacies.

teawrecks 11y ago

\Theory That's a hypothesis.

conceit 10y ago

We do embody a many of those algorithms. How does that Henn and Egg problem work out? I think you are right for the beginning of language learning and the rest is just synthesis and guesswork.

zappo2938 11y ago

Probably. However, more important, we are surrounded by incredibly clever medicine that we haven't discovered yet. When we tear down rain forests and diversity, those potential discovers are lost.

dharma1 11y ago

Since evolution has had a lot of time to optimise, and humans relatively little time to build the tooling and science to understand what's going on, I would assume there is a lot left to discover