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There are a few other comments on here who are surprised by this. How is it really surprising? The two main points: a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type

There are a few other comments on here who are surprised by this. How is it really surprising? The two main points: a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type of fake bank accounts set up or something to launder the money because they knew what they were doing was wrong. b. The tickets were sold at substantially higher prices than on Ticketmaster. They were able to do this by gaming the system/or cracking the schemes in place (captcha's) to prevent people from doing this. c. On a lighter note, they named their company Wiseguys Tickets. That's like the Mafia naming themselves Mafia, Inc. - "We Handle The Rough Stuff". A name like Wiseguys Tickets is just asking to be investigated.

breck 17y ago
> a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type of fake bank accounts set up or something to launder the money because they knew what they were doing was wrong. If they did that, then I can see the point of this case. But I didn't read the full suit. Anyone? > b. The tickets were sold at substantially higher prices than on Ticketmaster. They were able to do this by gaming the system/or cracking the schemes in place (captcha's) to prevent people from doing this. Nothing wrong with this. It happens all the time. When I was in college when course registration opened at 6am, the CS majors always "coincidentally" got their preferred courses more often than other students. TicketMaster charges an arm and a leg for the "convenience" of buying tickets online. I'm happy someone was taking advantage of them. > c. On a lighter note, they named their company Wiseguys Tickets. That's like the Mafia naming themselves Mafia, Inc. - "We Handle The Rough Stuff". A name like Wiseguys Tickets is just asking to be investigated. Haha. I thought the same thing.
- lmkg 17y ago
  I just read through the indictment, albeit rushed and IANAL. a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys claimed to be over 1,000 different people. Whether this is against Ticketmaster's TOS may be immaterial, since the "fraud" charge applies just to the act of claiming to be someone else, not the use or material repercussions of the claim (as opposed to a civil suit). There are also a number of cases where Wiseguys' bots gained access to tickets nominally only available to exclusive groups, of which neither the bots (obviously) or Wiseguys were a member. Additionally, many of the ticket purchases were agreed upon ahead of time with specific brokers, which probably makes the false-identity charges much stronger. There's also one shell company run by Wiseguys that claimed to be selling tickets directly from the venue, which it was not. b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the legal status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the purchase, which removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement. On the personal side of things, while TicketMaster isn't my favorite company either, someone grabbing all their tickets to inflate the prices even higher by adding two additional middlemen doesn't really help things. I consider Wiseguys to be the scummier actor here.
  - breck 17y ago
    Thanks for reading and sharing. > a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys claimed to be over 1,000 different people. If this becomes a crime then we're all in trouble. Who hasn't created a test account using a fake name, etc.? I don't want to be guilty of perjury or fraud because I created 2 digg accounts. > b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the legal status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the purchase, which removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement. I think TicketMaster would have been right to not honor these tickets then, but not sure how this could be a criminal offense.

breck 17y ago

> a. Wire fraud. They probably had some type of fake bank accounts set up or something to launder the money because they knew what they were doing was wrong. If they did that, then I can see the point of this case. But I didn't read the full suit. Anyone? > b. The tickets were sold at substantially higher prices than on Ticketmaster. They were able to do this by gaming the system/or cracking the schemes in place (captcha's) to prevent people from doing this. Nothing wrong with this. It happens all the time. When I was in college when course registration opened at 6am, the CS majors always "coincidentally" got their preferred courses more often than other students. TicketMaster charges an arm and a leg for the "convenience" of buying tickets online. I'm happy someone was taking advantage of them. > c. On a lighter note, they named their company Wiseguys Tickets. That's like the Mafia naming themselves Mafia, Inc. - "We Handle The Rough Stuff". A name like Wiseguys Tickets is just asking to be investigated. Haha. I thought the same thing.

lmkg 17y ago
I just read through the indictment, albeit rushed and IANAL. a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys claimed to be over 1,000 different people. Whether this is against Ticketmaster's TOS may be immaterial, since the "fraud" charge applies just to the act of claiming to be someone else, not the use or material repercussions of the claim (as opposed to a civil suit). There are also a number of cases where Wiseguys' bots gained access to tickets nominally only available to exclusive groups, of which neither the bots (obviously) or Wiseguys were a member. Additionally, many of the ticket purchases were agreed upon ahead of time with specific brokers, which probably makes the false-identity charges much stronger. There's also one shell company run by Wiseguys that claimed to be selling tickets directly from the venue, which it was not. b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the legal status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the purchase, which removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement. On the personal side of things, while TicketMaster isn't my favorite company either, someone grabbing all their tickets to inflate the prices even higher by adding two additional middlemen doesn't really help things. I consider Wiseguys to be the scummier actor here.
- breck 17y ago
  Thanks for reading and sharing. > a. Through the use of fake email addresses, domains, and IPs, Wiseguys claimed to be over 1,000 different people. If this becomes a crime then we're all in trouble. Who hasn't created a test account using a fake name, etc.? I don't want to be guilty of perjury or fraud because I created 2 digg accounts. > b. The tickets say they are not allowed to be resold. I do not know the legal status of such claims, but you agree to those terms before the purchase, which removes one of the weak points of TOS enforcement. I think TicketMaster would have been right to not honor these tickets then, but not sure how this could be a criminal offense.