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Before I start, I'm in favor of in-person visitations and generally agree with this article, but I was frustrated by its one-sided nature. They've presented a

by mdip 10y ago

Before I start, I'm in favor of in-person visitations and generally agree with this article, but I was frustrated by its one-sided nature. They've presented a case highlighting almost none of the motivations behind video visitations beyond the quick buck ($1/minute) and the prison system's obvious desire to screw the families of inmates[1]. Problem #1 at a prison is security. Physical visitation is a security nightmare for all of the reasons you can imagine. The process is onerous to the visitor, the prisoner and staff. Keeping contraband out is very difficult - you can't give a body-cavity search to a visitor (as far as I know). Yes, there are many ways to get bad things in, but this is one of them. Because of these problems, visitations are scheduled events that occur far too infrequently. This also reduces moral. Many family members of prisoners are unwilling to visit a prisoner for a variety of human factors: being around a large number of criminals is not something most people want to do. Being associated with a person in prison is enough to make a family member not want to visit. Distance, especially in the Federal system where a prisoner can be hundreds of miles away from any family, is a huge barrier. The prisons that I'm aware of that are looking deeper into video visitation are interested in its potential to increase visit frequency and virtual, remote, visitation. It makes the stigma and difficulty of visitation easier (on the visitor) which gives a prisoner a visitor that may not have had one otherwise. That said, while I think it would be OK for a prison to reduce in-person visitations with the availability of remote visitor visitation, I'm firmly against elimination of in-person visitations (for all of the reasons presented in the article). Security, being the first responsibility of a prison, is benefited by not eliminating the program. But there is likely a balance. With visitations being a "paid affair" (especially at those outrageous prices), and with video visitation allowing for an easier to secure environment, there will also be additional motivation to increase the frequency of these "virtual visits", perhaps to the point of the frequency of what is allowed for phone calls. [1] I've chosen that wording because that was my take-away of how the article framed the argument. I do not believe this is the actual motivation of the prison system.

chmod775 10y ago
You can, however, give a body-cavity search to a prisoner after visitation. Plus, from my perspective, the first priority of any prison should be rehabilitation and reintegration of the prisoner into society.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  Rehabilitation and integration are not goals in the US. It's punishment and deterring criminals. It's dumb and antiquated old testament morale beyond believe.
  - zo1 10y ago
    Let's not single out the US for that. There are quite a lot of places (many even worse than the US) that use imprisonment for punishment and as a deterrent, rather than rehabilitation. It's society's dirty little secret, that some members of it just want "Bad People" to be punished.
    - peteretep 10y ago
      There are no other modern rich, democratic countries with anything even approaching the incarceration rate or minimum sentencing insanity the US has, so it's entirely proper to single the US out.
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        The Japanese system is deeply troubled too although in different ways.
        lunchTime42 10y ago
        Yes, they have old people who dont get enough for a pension. That is troubling as so far, as it prooves that people can in the end vote with there hands and feets against the free market approach of everyone insure himself against beeing poor at old age.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        I'm talking about the justice system. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.
jccalhoun 10y ago
I do think it would be useful for people who can't afford to go to the prison in person, the price is unreasonable. I don't know anything about prison but are in person visitations not like they are on tv where the person is behind glass and they talk on a phone? that seems like it would make contraband difficult to get to the prisoner.
- tyingq 10y ago
  >>are in person visitations not like they are on tv where the person is behind glass and they talk on a phone? It varies. Many have "contact visits" where you're allowed to sit with the inmate. Not uncontrolled, though...heavily supervised, and usually, with assigned seating that keeps you a few feet apart.
- mdip 10y ago
  That depends - the cost of a hundred-mile drive (in both time and money) is also very high. $30/half-hour is a lot, but it could quickly be less expensive than some visits. That said, the cost is insane for something that basically runs over the internet with a relatively fixed cost for the provider. Outside of a prison, nobody would pay that much for a video call.
hawleyal 10y ago
Pretty simple, in my opinion. Not everyone in jail or prison is as yet convicted. Prison sentences do not explicitly include this kind of restriction. You can't just arbitrarily decide how to treat prisoners. Moreover after the fact of their sentencing. Let alone people who are in prison who are not convicted or sentenced.
FireBeyond 10y ago
"The prisons that I'm aware of that are looking deeper into video visitation are interested in its potential to increase visit frequency and virtual, remote, visitation. It makes the stigma and difficulty of visitation easier (on the visitor) which gives a prisoner a visitor that may not have had one otherwise." The kickbacks, sorry, commissions, that the prison gets from these systems probably has little to nothing to do with that decision... distance is really the only reason to -augment- the visitation system, to my mind. Augmentation I'm fine with, reduction of existing visitation, not so much. It's a little condescending too - "We're reducing visitation and increasing paid video visitation, but it's to make you more comfortable, and not have to be around other prisoners". I somewhat DO think it's the actual motivation of the prison system, or at least parts of it, which is why you see these same companies lobbying FOR three strikes laws, lobbying FOR mandatory minimums, lobbying AGAINST legalization of marijuana because, in their own words, these things increase numbers of convicts in beds. I'm also of the thought that the strength of will of people who come into the prison system with altruistic goals to fight a suffocating cynicism of grim reality can only be found in a minority.
- mdip 10y ago
  I have no doubt that there's a strong desire to reduce or eliminate in-person visitations and the goal of adding video visitations is one of the ways they're trying to do that. I disagree with this for the most part -- elimination, anyway -- I would have less of a problem with reducing visitation frequency provided video visitation was affordable/effective and frequent and the end-result didn't cause prisoners to be more miserable[1]. And I could see elimination of in-person visitation for the most dangerous/high security prisons/prisoners (though I'm fairly certain that's eliminated already, so this might serve as an opportunity to allow a form of visitation where visitation wouldn't exist). A video call is a much more intimate experience than a phone call[2] and while it doesn't replace an in-person visit, there's probably a balance there that fits well and meets both goals. Whether or not the prison system will put the needs of the prisoners into the equation, here, leaves me pretty skeptical. But I'm rather cynical about the prison system and tend to fall on the side of "rehabilitation" being a more appropriate goal for handling criminal behavior -- something that is virtually absent from the US Criminal Justice philosophy. [1] The problem being: how do you measure that? [2] My only experience is as a lone developer working on a team that's in another country and five time-zones away. Video calls are a night-and-day improvement HD Audio calls (we're a Skype for Business shop). Seeing facial expressions, being able to look at and feel out "the room", is hugely important to me. It's been effective enough for me to give presentations to User Groups in other cities.

by mdip 10y ago

chmod775 10y ago

You can, however, give a body-cavity search to a prisoner after visitation. Plus, from my perspective, the first priority of any prison should be rehabilitation and reintegration of the prisoner into society.

ajmurmann 10y ago
Rehabilitation and integration are not goals in the US. It's punishment and deterring criminals. It's dumb and antiquated old testament morale beyond believe.
- zo1 10y ago
  Let's not single out the US for that. There are quite a lot of places (many even worse than the US) that use imprisonment for punishment and as a deterrent, rather than rehabilitation. It's society's dirty little secret, that some members of it just want "Bad People" to be punished.
  - peteretep 10y ago
    There are no other modern rich, democratic countries with anything even approaching the incarceration rate or minimum sentencing insanity the US has, so it's entirely proper to single the US out.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      The Japanese system is deeply troubled too although in different ways.
      - lunchTime42 10y ago
        Yes, they have old people who dont get enough for a pension. That is troubling as so far, as it prooves that people can in the end vote with there hands and feets against the free market approach of everyone insure himself against beeing poor at old age.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        I'm talking about the justice system. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

jccalhoun 10y ago

I do think it would be useful for people who can't afford to go to the prison in person, the price is unreasonable. I don't know anything about prison but are in person visitations not like they are on tv where the person is behind glass and they talk on a phone? that seems like it would make contraband difficult to get to the prisoner.

tyingq 10y ago
>>are in person visitations not like they are on tv where the person is behind glass and they talk on a phone? It varies. Many have "contact visits" where you're allowed to sit with the inmate. Not uncontrolled, though...heavily supervised, and usually, with assigned seating that keeps you a few feet apart.
mdip 10y ago
That depends - the cost of a hundred-mile drive (in both time and money) is also very high. $30/half-hour is a lot, but it could quickly be less expensive than some visits. That said, the cost is insane for something that basically runs over the internet with a relatively fixed cost for the provider. Outside of a prison, nobody would pay that much for a video call.

hawleyal 10y ago

Pretty simple, in my opinion. Not everyone in jail or prison is as yet convicted. Prison sentences do not explicitly include this kind of restriction. You can't just arbitrarily decide how to treat prisoners. Moreover after the fact of their sentencing. Let alone people who are in prison who are not convicted or sentenced.

FireBeyond 10y ago

"The prisons that I'm aware of that are looking deeper into video visitation are interested in its potential to increase visit frequency and virtual, remote, visitation. It makes the stigma and difficulty of visitation easier (on the visitor) which gives a prisoner a visitor that may not have had one otherwise." The kickbacks, sorry, commissions, that the prison gets from these systems probably has little to nothing to do with that decision... distance is really the only reason to -augment- the visitation system, to my mind. Augmentation I'm fine with, reduction of existing visitation, not so much. It's a little condescending too - "We're reducing visitation and increasing paid video visitation, but it's to make you more comfortable, and not have to be around other prisoners". I somewhat DO think it's the actual motivation of the prison system, or at least parts of it, which is why you see these same companies lobbying FOR three strikes laws, lobbying FOR mandatory minimums, lobbying AGAINST legalization of marijuana because, in their own words, these things increase numbers of convicts in beds. I'm also of the thought that the strength of will of people who come into the prison system with altruistic goals to fight a suffocating cynicism of grim reality can only be found in a minority.

mdip 10y ago
I have no doubt that there's a strong desire to reduce or eliminate in-person visitations and the goal of adding video visitations is one of the ways they're trying to do that. I disagree with this for the most part -- elimination, anyway -- I would have less of a problem with reducing visitation frequency provided video visitation was affordable/effective and frequent and the end-result didn't cause prisoners to be more miserable[1]. And I could see elimination of in-person visitation for the most dangerous/high security prisons/prisoners (though I'm fairly certain that's eliminated already, so this might serve as an opportunity to allow a form of visitation where visitation wouldn't exist). A video call is a much more intimate experience than a phone call[2] and while it doesn't replace an in-person visit, there's probably a balance there that fits well and meets both goals. Whether or not the prison system will put the needs of the prisoners into the equation, here, leaves me pretty skeptical. But I'm rather cynical about the prison system and tend to fall on the side of "rehabilitation" being a more appropriate goal for handling criminal behavior -- something that is virtually absent from the US Criminal Justice philosophy. [1] The problem being: how do you measure that? [2] My only experience is as a lone developer working on a team that's in another country and five time-zones away. Video calls are a night-and-day improvement HD Audio calls (we're a Skype for Business shop). Seeing facial expressions, being able to look at and feel out "the room", is hugely important to me. It's been effective enough for me to give presentations to User Groups in other cities.